Deobandis Refuse Explicit Kufr in Hifzul Imaan

<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Deobandis Refuse Explicit Kufr in Hifzul Imaan</b></div><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Deobandis</b> <b>insist </b>on justification for <b>Kufr </b>statement in <a href="http://salafiaqeedah.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/hifzul-imaan-1319ah-1901ce.html"><b>Hifzul Imaan</b></a><a href="http://salafiaqeedah.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/hifzul-imaan-1319ah-1901ce.html"> </a> by their elder <b>Ashraf Ali Thanvi</b> (d.<b>1943 </b>CE) <a href="http://salafiaqeedah.blogspot.com/2015/11/hifzul-imaan-1319ah-1901ce.html"><span style="color: blue;"><b>Here</b></span></a></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>When we talk about cults, we talk about blind following and being unapologetic for even those things that are blatantly inexcusable. </b><a href="http://salafiaqeedah.blogspot.com/2011/06/conversation-between-mr-h-and-mr-y-part.html"><span style="color: blue;"><b>Here</b></span></a></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><img loading="lazy" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhW-vOTV_bVkI82lMKI5rO7HU-oU1YRoDmWKRa2K8rhB8kTOm7qG9zZ1apfFqvdg4x6CWVwI31tyNgEc_ADIeYm2RYI-SvjGyYoCVfpX_f7TQn3N49glq7Gpfujp_tKI04w41Ef1XnLbXuE/s280-rw/Deobandi+Cult.jpg" style="max-width: 90%; padding: 4px;" /><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhW-vOTV_bVkI82lMKI5rO7HU-oU1YRoDmWKRa2K8rhB8kTOm7qG9zZ1apfFqvdg4x6CWVwI31tyNgEc_ADIeYm2RYI-SvjGyYoCVfpX_f7TQn3N49glq7Gpfujp_tKI04w41Ef1XnLbXuE/s1600/Deobandi+Cult.jpg"><b></b></a></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>If that's cultish, then aren't deobandis the biggest cult of all...?</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">We're <b>not </b>just talking about justifying <span style="color: red;">haram</span>, such as a <b>shaykh</b>praising deviants, (<span style="color: blue;"><b><a href="http://salafiaqeedah.blogspot.com/2018/07/the-evil-within.html">Here</a></b></span>) <b>we're dealing with</b> <b>statements ofkufr;</b> and <b>still deobandis refuse to accept.</b></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-family: sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>The Biggest Cult!</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> said: Are the beliefs of the Deobandis kufr or <b>is it that some of their statements are interpreted as kufr by non-Deobandis while they interpret them to not be kufr?</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">In other words, <b>do Deobandis actually admit to holding beliefs that are kufr?</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-family: sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni response</b>: <b>Course they don't. Otherwise why would they hold them?</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Their elders committed kufr by insulting RasulAllah (</b>صلى الله عليه وسلم<b>) </b><b>and the deobandis refuse to distance from those passages.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><a href="http://salafiaqeedah.blogspot.com/2011/06/gustakh-e-rasool.html"><span style="color: blue;"><b>Here</b></span></a></div><div style="text-align: left;">--</div><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> said: <b>My question would be, what is the kufr if they don't interpret those passages as insulting RasulAllah?</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni response</b>: <b>Interpretations are invalid in explicit words. 33 scholars of Haramayn and 268 of India ruled them as kufr.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> <b>Of course, they do not believe these passages are explicit (or implicit) insults.</b></div><div style="text-align: left;">Are you saying there are no <b>non-Deobandi scholars</b> who did not interpret these passages as insults?</div><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">If some impartial <b>non-Deoband</b>i<b> scholars</b> understood them to not be insults, <b>maybe they are not explicit?</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> I say this, because <b>all excuses have to be exhausted before a statement is ruled to be kufr.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni Reply:</b>  <span style="color: blue;"><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads%2Fa-fatwa-of-hafiz-ibn-taymiyyah.1825%2F&fbclid=IwAR2pA7K61YvLVGrHLK4eN_Snqe9LkKUttswcfxIa-pkMC_g_9KELahmyvyc#post-6736">http://sunniport.com/index.php...</a></span></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">A fatwa of Hafiz <span style="color: red;">Ibn Taymiyyah</span></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> I was sent an English book called <b>"A Critique of Husam al-Haramayn".</b></div><div style="text-align: left;">In that book, on <b>page 85</b> it mentions that this phrase "<b>mitti mei milne</b>" idiomatically means "<b>to be buried</b>". It refers to dictionaries Nur-ul-Lughat, Jami-ul-Lughat, Munir-ul-Lughat and Sa'eed-ul-Lughat.</div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Maybe the other passages can have similar explanations.</b> <b>If so, it would be necessary to avoid calling them kufr.</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni:</b> Saman Alam pretty sure Imam Ahmad Raza exhausted the hundreds of possibilities<b> over 13 years</b> of back and forth conversation with those scholars of Deoband before he finally gave the fatwa of <b>Kufr.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b> <b>And that's why explanations are not heard for explicit words, otherwise nothing would be kufr.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/abu.sufian.501">Mohammed Kamal Hussain</a></b> said: But then any Tom,Dick and Harry could put kufr upon anyone. </div><div style="text-align: left;">Theses disputes have become like <b>Chinese whispers</b>. They will never end and <b>there is no point in trying to fix that which can’t be fix.Just don’t talk about it and carry on with life.</b></div><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>  Well said. <b>That's why it wasn't</b> Thomas or Richard, it was <b>33 of the greats of Haramayn.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> <b>I'm sure Deobandis also point to some of the greats of Haramayn and other places who exonerated them of kufr.</b> If there is legitimate disagreement, <b>the view of it not being kufr is the safe position.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>  <b>That's where we come to this "</b><b>exoneration</b><b>", </b><b>al-Muhannad</b><b>. </b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>What exactly did they exonerate? (</b><a href="http://salafiaqeedah.blogspot.com/2012/03/why-did-deobandi-akabir-write-al.html"><b>Here</b></a><b>)</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> You can have a look yourself.</div><div style="text-align: left;">I found this translation online: <a href="https://www.themajlis.co.za/books/Al-Muhannad_%27ala_al-Mufannad_Translation.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1SF8xgGOlscXvhP5Rl0xymE57f9WQJtOoWtgVlmUPlixqqcl-2hF0LRfk">https://www.themajlis.co.za/.../Al-Muhannad_%27ala_al...</a></div><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Mohammed Kamal Hussain said: </b> They say that many great ulamaah of haramayn and other say <b>there is nothing kufri in their books.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;">--</div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>  <b>This is the reality of </b><b>Muhannad:</b> </div></b><div style="text-align: left;"><a href="http://files.aqdas.webnode.com/200000093-e92f5ea2a9/muhannad.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3viP4aK7hx_BYunNxEJ51BhLofjYWAKMJ6XDjrZHtgacqasPwthQmPZWs"></a><a href="http://files.aqdas.webnode.com/200000093-e92f5ea2a9/muhannad.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3viP4aK7hx_BYunNxEJ51BhLofjYWAKMJ6XDjrZHtgacqasPwthQmPZWs">http://files.aqdas.webnode.com/200000093.../muhannad.pdf</a></div><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/abu.sufian.501">Mohammed Kamal Hussain</a></b> Why is what you put correct and what Saman put incorrect or vice versus ?</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> <b>I am not in a position to assess the reliability of the historical information.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">Nor do I think most people are</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>  Saman only posted a link to the book. <b>I posted why that book is a total </b><b>deceit.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> Under <b>question 20,</b> <b>one of the passages in dispute is written out in full:</b></div><div style="text-align: left;">"Moreover, if this usage were correct for his holy essence (Allah bless him and grant him peace) according to the statement of a questioner, we will ask for clarification from him: <b>what does he mean by this ghayb?</b></div><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">Does he mean every particular from the particulars of ghayb or a part of it, <b>whichever part it may be?</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>If he intended a part of the ghayb, there is no speciality in this for the Chief of Messengers</b> (Allah bless him and grant him peace), <b>since the knowledge of some ghayb, even if it is little, is attainable by Zayd and ‘Amr, rather every child and madman, rather all animals and beasts</b>, because every one of them knows something another does not know and [something that is] hidden from him.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Hence, if the questioner permits the usage</b> [of the term] ‘<b>alim al ghayb for one because of his knowledge of a part of the ghayb, it would be necessary for him to allow its usage for all those mentioned</b>, and <b>if that was the case, it would not then be from the perfections of prophethood because they all share in it</b>; and<b> if it is not the case, he will be asked for a distinction, and will find no path to it</b>. [Here] ends the statement of <b>Shaykh al-Thanawi</b>."</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>   <b>Show me in the entire </b><b>Muhannad</b><b> the passages verbatim, as they appear in the original books. Time starts now.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/abu.sufian.501">Mohammed Kamal Hussain</a></b>  said: He posted his source and posted yours, besides there are 100s of books from both groups not to mention YouTube clips. It’s not correct to ask for clarification of a derbondi book from a brelvi or vice versa.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">Also one could argue that it’s all semantics.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>  <b>I'm asking devbandis about their own book. If that book is an exoneration, show us the passages verbatim that ulama of Haramayn said weren't kufr.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> <b>Does the paragraph</b> that I quoted from <b>Muhannad </b>not accurately represent one of the passages in dispute?</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/abu.sufian.501">Mohammed Kamal Hussain</a></b>  said: More to the point why should a non drebondi have a say on what the text mean ? <b>Surly the students of the person would have a better understanding of what the text is implying also vice versa.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>  <b>Exoneration would only be if you quote the exact words and THEN ulama say they're not kufr. If the deobandis believed they weren't kufr, why not quote the precise words...</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/abu.sufian.501">Mohammed Kamal Hussain</a></b> said: <b>why should the burden of proof be upon the writer</b>, surly it’s upon the claimant. And from what I’ve seen both in writing and on YouTube, it seems all semantic driven by the mob from both sides.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>  <b>The writer's aimed to exonerate themselves by writing </b><b>Muhannad</b><b>. Where in that book are their passages that were deemed to be kufr by 33 ulama of Haramayn?</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> In the paragraph I have quoted above, what would you say requires changing to make it accurate?</div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Some things would obviously be lost in translation from Urdu to Arabic. </b></div></b><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>But what in your view makes the above paragraph not kufr and the original paragraph kufr?</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/abu.sufian.501">Mohammed Kamal Hussain</a></b> Exonerate or clarification ?</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>  <b>Thanwi </b><b>wrote: </b><b>aysa</b><b> ilm (</b><b>such knowledge</b><b>).</b></div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Show me from your translated passage these words.</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><img loading="lazy" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjS2p4VMs3RZdaaQf-a8Mk4fSSHgfeFkpXV4m3oqqLNQYKHBqOa6JLurcx9v_3uHhSWwQvwVAc-7lGiBjZEGx7wd1G7TdjEkxVLjxFCnw2QFbbF_wy1EdQCwwTmSpURaw8kz8JTWp-j3lxs/s280-rw/it+is+in+Hifzul+iman.jpg" style="max-width: 90%; padding: 4px;" /><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjS2p4VMs3RZdaaQf-a8Mk4fSSHgfeFkpXV4m3oqqLNQYKHBqOa6JLurcx9v_3uHhSWwQvwVAc-7lGiBjZEGx7wd1G7TdjEkxVLjxFCnw2QFbbF_wy1EdQCwwTmSpURaw8kz8JTWp-j3lxs/s1600/it+is+in+Hifzul+iman.jpg"></a></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> "The knowledge of some ghayb" = "<b>aysa </b>ilm ghayb"</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">See page 63 of "A Critique of Husam al-Haramayn".</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"> <b>"Aysa"</b> can mean "this kind of", and is not necessarily used for comparison. So the words say, "This kind of ilm ghayb", or in the translation of Muhannad, "The knowledge of some ghayb", which is what "this kind of ilm ghayb" refers to.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>  <b>But didn't deobandis say it's for comparison? Tashbih.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> I'm going by what's mentioned in the above work. Based on what I have mentioned, is the translation of Muhannad a linguistically valid meaning?</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>  <b>When </b><b>aysa</b><b> is used and the mushabbah and mushabbah bihi are mentioned, it's for comparison. The words are in Urdu and that's the rule in Urdu.</b> </div><div style="text-align: left;">I've not even commented on the signatories of Muhannad yet..</div><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>And why should we forget what deobandis themselves said about </b><b>aysa</b><b>?</b> <b>Husain Ahmad Tandwi</b><b>, anyone?</b> <span style="color: blue;"><b>(</b></span><a href="http://salafiaqeedah.blogspot.com/2015/11/hifzul-imaan-1319ah-1901ce.html"><span style="color: blue;"><b>Here</b></span></a><span style="color: blue;"><b>)</b></span></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> Aysa seems equivalent to the English "such", as you have translated it. When it says "such knowledge of ghayb", could it not be referring to "the knowledge of some ghayb" as translated in Muhannad? Is this linguistically possible or not?</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>  <b>Aysa ilm e ghayb - 'such knowledge of ghayb'. </b></div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>So which two things is </b><b>SUCH </b><b>comparing?</b></div></b><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>If we accept partial knowledge for Zameel, then what is his speciality?</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Such knowledge is also held by animals and madmen.</b></div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Such is comparing Zameel with dogs and pigs.</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> "What Mawlana Ashraf Ali Thanavi <b>meant </b>was that if when Zayd says 'Alim al-Ghayb' (Knower of Unseen knowledge) only some of that knowledge of the Unseen is meant then what is the specification of the Messenger in that; for the like of that (i.e. some), and as a result of which Zayd is calling the Messenger “Knower of the Unseen knowledge”, is found with Zayd and Amar, in fact with every child, insane person, and even animal and beast. Therefore it would demand Zayd to call all of them (Allah Almighty forbid) “Knowers of the Unseen”. This has to be so as according to Zayd to be called Knower of the Unseen it is enough to have any piece of knowledge of the Unseen, and it is certain that all these beings have some knowledge of the Unseen. If they do not then at the very least they have knowledge of their Creator and that too comes under Unseen knowledge.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">"Mawlana Ashraf Ali Thanavi <b>never meant</b> the kind of Unseen knowledge possessed by the Messenger of God is also possessed by the things he lists. Nor did he mean (Allah Almighty forbid) that the knowledge possessed by the Messenger is of the same level and equal to that which is possessed by every child, insane person, animals and beasts as has been portrayed by Mawlana Ahmad Raza Khan, as signified by his words: “See the parity he is creating between the Messenger of Allah and any insignificant being.”" (A Critique of Husam al-Haramayn, page 64)</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> It is an interpretation to say RasulAllah is the "mushabbah".</div><div style="text-align: left;">It is possible there is no mushabbah, and the word "aysa" means "this kind of knowledge of ghayb", referring to some knowledge of the unseen.</div><div style="text-align: left;">Based on this, the rendition of Muhannad is a possible linguistic meaning and the original passage is not kufr.</div><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>  <b>He mentioned the partial knowledge of RasulAllah </b>صلى الله عليه وسلم<b> </b><b>and compared it to animals.</b> </div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>What do you think, is this disrespectful to a chap called</b><b>Zameel:</b></div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>If it means </b><b>Zameel </b><b>has partial knowledge, then what is special about him?</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Such knowledge is also held by animals and madmen.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Is that insulting the knowledge of </b><b>Zameel </b><b>or not?</b></div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Or </b><b>Thanwi </b><b>himself:</b></div></b><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>If we accept partial knowledge for </b><b>Ashraf Ali Thanwi </b><b>and because of that we call him aalim, then what is special about</b><b>Thanwi</b><b>? Such knowledge is also held by animals and madmen.</b></div></b><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Hand on heart, would you accept that for </b><b>Thanwi</b><b>?</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni:</b> Saman Alam <b>If, according to Khalil Anbethwi, there was no kufr in the passages on page 8 of Hifz al-Iman, page 51 of Barahin-e-Qati’ah and pages 3, 14 and 28 of Tahdhir al-Nas;</b><b>then what was he afraid of?</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;">It was binding upon him to present the actual passages to the scholars of Haramayn and their correct translations and the meaning which he understood from them. He should then have asked the scholars of Haramayn whether these are the meanings of these passages or not and are they free from kufr or not? </div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>The climax of all dishonesty </b>was that one passage was declared to be the summary of the meaning of <b>Barahin-e-Qati’ah.</b>Another passage was said to be the summary of the subject of<b>Tahdhir al-Nas </b>and at the end of another passage, he wrote that here end the words of Thanwi. </div></b><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>In al Muhannad Khaleel Ambethwi never presented theactual text. Remember that.</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> The subject is not knowledge or ilm in general, but knowledge of unseen and ilm al-ghayb.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">Can you answer this question. Is the rendition of Muhannad a possible linguistic meaning?</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">It's not possible to present the actual text when you are communicating between languages! The question is whether the meaning was accurately conveyed.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni: </b>Saman Alam it is definetely possible.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">Khaleel Ambethwi was a teacher in arabic literature. (شیخ ادب)</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">Khaleel made his own interpretation and presented it.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">When he can write a whole book in arabic. How can he not translate the passages?</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"> This clearly reflects injustice and dishonesty that actual texts were not presented.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>  No, it's not accurate and not a possible meaning.<b>Why? Because it was the word </b><b>AYSA</b><b> that was the basis of kufr and it is that very word that </b><b>Muhannad </b><b>omitted.</b> </div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Alahazrat translated it: </b><b>مثل هذا العلم بالغيب</b><b> so why didn't</b><b>Anbethwi</b><b>?</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Why did he give his</b><b> interpretation </b><b>rather than a translation?</b></div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Manzoor Numani </b><b>agreed with Alahazrat's translation, by the way.</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> Maybe he felt it was not necessary to provide a verbatim translation and it would be enough to convey the meaning.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni:</b>  Saman Alam wow. One presents according to his own feelings. Where on earth this happens? Particularly when you are in court of Ulama Haramain</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>  <b>Ya RasulAllah (</b> صلى الله عليه وسلم)<b>! Unnecessary?! They were deemed kafirs for the verbatim. </b></div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Why didn't he go to the SAME ulama who called </b><b>Thanwi </b><b>a kafir and say, 'you've been duped. Here's the exact translation and this is the meaning.'</b></div></b><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>You say Alahazrat lied.  Fine. Then why didn't </b><b>Anbethwi</b><b>present the correct TRANSLATIONS according to HIM and get the fatwa of kufr retracted from the SAME scholars who called them kafirs...??</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> “In the Urdu language the word <b>aysa</b> (like) has several meanings. The poet Ameer Minai in his famous Urdu lexicon Ameer al-Lughaat, explaining the word aysa, writes:</div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>1. </b>Of this kind; used in a phrase such as, to make a pen-case like this is difficult for any person, (Aatish). Also, there is no beloved like her in the garden of the world – neither is there a rose that emits her fragrance nor is there a fruit with the like of her pleasure.</div></b><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>2.</b> This amount or extent; like (this) he struck him (<b>aysa maara</b>) such that he was left lifeless. Also,</div></b><div style="text-align: left;">This wine-presser‟s body is so (aysa) supple and clean</div><div style="text-align: left;">that the religious believe it tantamount to a wave of wine</div><div style="text-align: left;">Clearly it is possible to take either the meaning of like this kind or of this amount/extent. Keeping this in view the passage of<b>Mawlana Ashraf Ali Thanavi becomes completely faultless</b>and <b>under no circumstances can it be said he was guilty of blasphemy against the Messenger</b> (Allah forbid), <b>the very thought never crossed his mind.</b>” <b>(A Critique of Husam al-Haramayn, page 63)</b></div><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> It doesn't matter if the word is omitted, if what the word refers to is conveyed accurately.</div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Is it not possible </b>that "<b>aysa</b>" could mean "this kind of ilm al-ghayb", referring specifically to "some knowledge of the unseen"? <b>Is this a possible meaning or interpretation?</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>   It's ok to take the meaning of 'this amount'<b>? So now we're equating the amount of knowledge of RasulAllah</b>صلى الله عليه وسلم<b>  </b><b>with animals! (Astaghfirullah)</b></div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Please, why don't you stop for the sake of your iman?</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>So now your passage becomes:</b> </div><span style="color: red;"><div style="text-align: left;">“Then what is extraordinary about RasūlAllāh in possessing it?</div></span><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">This much knowledge of unseen is also possessed by all and sundry [Zayd, Amr]; even infants, lunatics and all the animals and quadrupeds.”</span></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> As far as I can see, this is just a matter of linguistic gymnastics. Deobandis clearly have their reasons, linguistic etc.,<b>for believing this passage is not blasphemous</b>. <b>They presented their understanding, and were exonerated of kufr.</b></div><div style="text-align: left;">"This amount" would mean "the amount of some knowledge of unseen", that is as opposed to "the amount of all knowledge of unseen", not "the amount of knowledge of RasulAllah"!</div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>It seems you will jump to only the worst possible meaning.</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>  <b>Then why say </b><b>'amount</b><b>'? What is the need at all to mention amounts and quantities?</b></div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>You can just say partial or total unless you wish to equate the amount?</b></div></b><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Is the amount of partial knowledge of RasulAllah </b>صلى الله عليه وسلم<b>  </b><b>the same as animals? No! Then why say </b><b>aysa, </b><b>'this amount of partial knowledge of unseen is also held by animals.'</b></div></b><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Mentioning amounts with the word </b><b>aysa</b><b> is for what? The words </b><b>itnā</b><b> and is qadr come to mind...</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;">Amounts and extents are mentioned for quantities, not types.</div><div style="text-align: left;">Partial knowledge is a type.</div><div style="text-align: left;">Total knowledge is a type.</div><div style="text-align: left;">Amount of partial knowledge is for quantity. </div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Do you deobandis have any intellect at all?</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> It would be rendered as, "This amount or extent of knowledge of unseen", not, "This amount of partial knowledge of unseen" as you have rendered it.</div><div style="text-align: left;">"This amount of knowledge of unseen" refers to "partial knowledge of unseen" as opposed to "total knowledge of unseen". An "amount" or "extent" does not have to be static but can be variable, as with the amount of "partial knowledge of unseen". It means: "anything less than total".</div><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> The types in reference are quantities: partial quantity or total quantity.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>  <b>Is this acceptable:</b></div><span style="color: red;"><div style="text-align: left;">If it refers to <b>partial knowledge</b> of unseen, then what is special about RasulAllah  صلى الله عليه وسلم in possessing it? This <b>amount</b>of knowledge of unseen is attainable by animals and madmen.</div></span><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> <b>It is acceptable if</b> "this <b>amount </b>of knowledge of unseen" is referring to "partial knowledge of unseen" and not the knowledge of RasulAllah.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>  Then you wouldn't say <b>amount</b>, would you? It's silly. <b>You'd just say, partial knowledge. If you mention an</b><span style="color: red;"><b>amount,</b></span><b> it only means quantity. </b></div><div style="text-align: left;">It's like saying:</div><div style="text-align: left;">Bill Gates has some money but what is special about Bill in this?<span style="color: red;">This </span><b>amount</b> is even held by Zameel too.</div><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> The discussion is about something attributed exclusively to Allah, "Alim al-Ghayb", not about things that are attributed to creation also like knowledge in general or wealth.</div><div style="text-align: left;">So a better analogy would be something like "Khaliq" (Creator). Take the following analogy: </div><div style="text-align: left;">'If someone said, Elon Musk can be called "the Creator", he of course does not mean creator of everything, but creator of some things, while creating some things is not exclusive to Elon Musk; such an amount of creation is carried out even by ants and other creatures, so they should all be called "Creators".'</div><div style="text-align: left;">It is obvious that what is being attributed to ants is not the same quantity of invention or creation as Elon Musk but of creating some things in general. There is no equation made between Elon Musk and ants. In the same way, no equation is made between the ilm al-ghayb of RasulAllah and the other creatures in the original passage.</div><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>  <b>Yes, equation IS made.</b> <b>Because you've said</b><b>AMOUNT.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> The amount of "some" as opposed to "all", not the amount held by the person in question.</div><div style="text-align: left;">I would have thought that's an obvious distinction.</div><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> In the analogy that I presented and the original passage, the actual amounts held are not even brought up. </div><div style="text-align: left;">All that is mentioned is that a general amount described as "some" is held by them, which is not something exclusive to them, rather a general amount of "some" is also held by others.</div><div style="text-align: left;">The actual, precise amount of that "some" is not even in question.</div><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>  YOU brought up amounts. <b>YOU said</b> it's a valid interpretation.<b> It would be good if you took that wording back and denounced it,</b> for your sake as it points towards equality.<b>No harm in doing tawbah from something once it's brought to your attention.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> ?? You seem to be evading the problems with your blasphemy theory. The passage clearly has a valid, alternative meaning which you are not willing to even consider.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">The meaning presented in Muhannad is not linguistically invalid or implausible. If the passage has a linguistically plausible meaning that is not kufr, that meaning will have to be assumed.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> "Now at the end I consider it appropriate, in order to complete this reply, that I further explain the passage of Hifz al-Iman that was the basis of this accusation, though it is completely clear. Firstly, I made the claim that the kind of Unseen knowledge that is intrinsic and independent (bi-laa wasita) is exclusively for Allah Most High. As for that Unseen knowledge that is dependent (bil-wasita) it is possible for the creation, but it is not permitted to call the creation Knower of the Unseen (`Alim al-Ghayb) thereby. For this claim I presented two proofs. That passage comes from the second proof which begins with the words: Then if it is true as held by Zayd that the ruling of knowledge of the Unseen is established for the pure person of the Messenger. It means that the application of the ruling of knowledge of the Unseen to the sacred person of the Messenger, is merely due to his possessing Unseen knowledge by dependency (bil-wasita) and this is sound according to you. Then by `Alim al-Ghayb (Knower of the Unseen) if you mean that he possesses all limitless knowledge, then that is impossible by the demand of scripture and reason. If, however, you mean only some branches of Unseen knowledge, even if it were just one thing, no matter how insignificant that one thing was, what is the specification of the Messenger in that. For the likeness (aysa) of that knowledge is possessed by Zayd, Amar etc.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">"The word aysa here does not mean they possess Unseen knowledge just as the knowledge of the Unseen possessed in reality by the Messenger, (We seek refuge of God from that). Rather the meaning of aysa here is exactly what we mentioned above, that is (all possess) some of the Unseen Knowledge (be it even a small amount, and no matter how insignificant). The reason for this is that some, as stated above, is general in its application. The very following words in the passage are also the proof for this; namely: The reason for this is that every person will have knowledge of something or other that is hidden from another person….Consequently, if Zayd considers it reason enough to apply knowledge of the Unseen to all cases of possessing any piece of Unseen knowledge, no matter how insignificant, then Zayd will have to call all these beings Knowers of the Unseen. Is it not so that they too know some Unseen things? A superficial reading of this very passage is clearly saying this…." (A Critique of Husam al-Haramayn, page 65)</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>According to the above work, this was written by the author of the original passage himself in 1910.</b></div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>What more is required after the explanation of the author himself?</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>   <b>A retraction maybe of the original passage which he changed?</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> He explained what he meant by the original passage in the above quote, and later made a modification but not because he believed there was anything problematic with the original:</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>"On the 28th of September 1923 (1342 Hijri), a friend of Mawlana Thanvi from Hyderabad Dakkan wrote to to him with reference to the Bast al-Banaan treatise:</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">"After your clarificaion there is no room left for any doubt. There is neither the slightest hint of a contrary meaning being intended nor bad ettiqutte. Hence truly there is absolutely no necessity to amend the passage for this reason. However, the Muslim world is filled with all kinds of people with different understandings and there are those who will deliberately cause confusion for their interests. They will of course claim it is for the sake of religion they do what they do, but in reality it is for worldly interest. Due to this situation, in consideration of those with less understanding, who may themselves fall into error or be confused by others, if this passage was modified in a way such that though the words would be altered, the substance would remain the same. It is hoped that this would be rewarded. This modification though would not be at the level of necessity, only desirable. The end decision is whatever you believe is correct.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">"<b>This is how Mawlana Thanavi replied to this letter:</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">"May God reward you. It is a very good idea. Because before this no one showed any real basis for modifying the passage, and so I thought making a modification would be necessarily admitting that the passage had a contrary meaning. It is a principle to make an admission of disbelief is disbelief (iqrar bil-kufr kufr). Thus I considered a modification, not only not necessary, it was actually forbidden. Now your letter has shown me a genuine justification and in line with your advice, I change the words from: 'If it some of the knowledge of the Unseen that is meant, then what is the specification of the Messenger in this? The like of this knowledge of the Unseen (aysa `ilm-e-ghayb) is also found with Zayd, Umar, moreover every child, insane person and even all animals and beasts. The reason for this is that every person will have knowledge of something or other that is hidden from another person, this will then require one to call everyone Knower of the Unseen (`Alim al-Ghayb)…' to this: 'If it is some of the knowledge of the Unseen that is meant, then what is the specification of the Messenger in this? Some knowledge of the Unseen in general terms (mutlaq `ulum-e-ghaybiyya) is also found with other than the prophets, may God's blessing be upon them. Thus it will require one to call every one Knower of the Unseen (`Alim al-Ghayb)….'</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">"This reply was then published under the title Tagheer al-Unwaan (Modification of the Address) in the same year. This letter was also published as an appendix to future editions of Hifz al-Iman." (A Critique of Husam al-Haramayn, page 68)</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>  <b> He </b><b>changed</b><b> the passage. It's still problematic as there's no repentance from the original.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>The question still remains:</b></div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>1. Why didn't </b><b>Anbethwi </b><b>present the actual passages or their correct translation? He could have then added what </b><b>Thanwi</b><b>meant. Why did he hide the original?</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>If there's no kufr, then why didn't he present it?</b></div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>2. Why didn't he go to the same ulama who are in Husam?</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>--</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> <b>I have no idea</b> about the second question, but I think it has been established that what he presented accurately conveys the meaning of the passage. </div><div style="text-align: left;">What matters is the meaning, not the words.</div><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> <b>He does not believe the original is problematic, so of course there will be no repentance. In fact, he said to repent would be an admission that the passage is kufr, but he does not accept this based on the clear explanation he has given.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>  <b>Wrong. Totally wrong.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>When talking about RasulAllah </b> صلى الله عليه وسلم<b>, it's words.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Do you know Rā'inā?</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>The ruling will always be on the apparent.</b></div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>As for the meaning, NO, it isn't present in Muhannad.</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Because </b><b>Thanwi </b><b>said </b><b>aysā</b><b> for tashbih but there is no word that indicates tashbih in </b><b>Muhannad</b><b>.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>It was the word</b><b> aysā </b><b>that was the cause of kufr and </b><b>Anbethwi</b><b>removed it.</b></div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>So, again, what was the harm in </b><b>Anbethwi </b><b>presenting accurate translations?</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Manzoor Numani </b><b>said the translations in Husām are correct.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Why didn't </b><b>Anbethwi</b><b> just show the same translations and THEN give his own meaning?</b></div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Listen. </b><b>Muhannad</b><b> can only be a reply to Husām if:</b></div></b><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>The same passages that are in Husām were presented to the same ulama and then they retracted. </b></div></b><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Right now, it's apples and oranges.</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> Going in circles.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>   <b>The crux of which is, if the passages of devbandis didn't contain kufr, why didn't the very book that sought to exonerate them mention the actual passages?</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Why only give the purported meaning and that too as understood by the devbandis themselves?</b></div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Why not let the ulama decide the meaning?</b></div></b><div style="text-align: left;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551?hc_location=ufi"></a><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551?hc_location=ufi">Saman Alam</a> are you Zameel?</div><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551"><b>Saman Alam</b></a><b> I am not Zameel.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;">A big factor would be communicating across languages.</div><div style="text-align: left;">Are you saying that when they wrote their defences in Urdu, like in the work I quoted above, they did not quote the complete passages?</div><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>  <b>Numani did. Chandpuri did. But the clincher is,</b><b>Anbethwi</b><b> DIDN'T because the former two didn't have to present to Arabs, the latter did. He hid the original passages.</b></div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>That's dishonesty. If you're so sure you haven't blasphemer, go ahead and present the actual accurate translations or even the original Urdu to people like Abdul Haq Muhajir Madani.</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551">Saman Alam</a></b> Were there no impartial non-Deobandi Urdu-speaking scholars who exonerated them of kufr?</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>  <b>Keyword: beliefs. The question ISN'T about beliefs, is it?</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>It's about what was </b><b>WRITTEN.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>The partial knowledge of RasulAllah </b>صلى الله عليه وسلم<b>  </b><b>has been compared to the partial knowledge of animals and madmen. </b><b>That's insulting and therefore kufr.</b></div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>My question remains, if devbandis didn't think it's kufr in the original passage, then:</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>1. Why didn't they present the actual translation of the passage?</b></div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>2. Why did they later change the same passage? </b></div></b><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>3. Why didn't they present Muhannad to the same scholars who had endorsed Husām?</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Changing a passage or only presenting what you claim it means doesn't remove kufr. It actually proves it further.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001379796942">شهاب صديقي</a></b> <a href="https://www.facebook.com/abdullahsaeed20?hc_location=ufi">Abd-Allah S. Qureshi</a> this Barelwi is trying too hard.<b>Tell him to shut up and start giving the interpretations that are now being shown from the books of his Akabir. </b></div><div style="text-align: left;">Let’s see him use the same yardstick that he uses with Deobandis.</div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Btw, great job Saman in exposing the hypocrisy of this guy.</b> I am sure it didn’t register with him at all.</div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b> <b>The partial knowledge of RasulAllah </b> صلى الله عليه وسلم<b> </b><b>is compared to that of animals </b><b>and you lot don't see the issue.Sad.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>--</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>  <b>Even if </b><b>aysā </b><b>refers to partial knowledge of unseen, whose knowledge is being compared with what?</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>--</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Sunni reply:</b>  <b>Tell me, would a deobandi find this </b><b>offensive:</b></div><b><div style="text-align: left;"><b>And then, if it is correct to attribute knowledge to be possessed by </b><b>Thanwi, </b><b>as </b><b>Zameel </b><b>says, then it remains to be asked, which one he refers to. Is it only a ‘part’ of it (ba’ad) or ‘complete’; if he refers to ‘part’, then what is extraordinary about </b><b>Thanwi </b><b>in possessing it?</b></div></b><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Such knowledge is also possessed by all and sundry; even infants, lunatics and all the animals and quadrupeds.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>The knowledge of </b><b>Gangohi, Anbethwi, Nanotwi </b><b>and </b><b>Thanwi;</b><b>what's extraordinary about it?</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Such knowledge is possessed by </b><span style="color: red;"><b>pigs </b></span><b>and </b><span style="color: red;"><b>dogs </b></span><b>too.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>So we should call </b><span style="color: red;"><b>pigs </b></span><b>aalims too.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-family: sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--------------------------------------------------------------</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Malik Ibn Wahb</b> related that <b>Malik </b>said,</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">إن رداء النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم ـ و يروى زر النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم ـ وسخ ، أراد عيبه ـ قتل</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>"Anyone who says that the Prophet's cloak (or button) was</b><b>dirty</b><b>, thereby intending to </b><b>find fault </b><b>with him, should be killed."</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Abu'l-Hasan al-Qabisi</b> gave a fatwa that</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">فيمن قال في النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم : الحمال يتيم أبي طالب ـ بالقتل</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>a man who called the Prophet "the porter, the orphan of Abu Talib" should be killed.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Abu Muhammad ibn Abi Zayd</b> gave a fatwa to kill a man <b>who was listening </b>to some people discussing what the <b>Prophet looked like.</b> When a man with an ugly face and beard walked by, he said to them, <b>"You want to know what he looked like?</b> He looked like this passer-by in physique and beard." <b>Abu Muhammad</b> said,</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">و لا تقبل توبته و قد كذب ـ لعنه الله ، و ليس يخرج من قلب سليم الإيمان</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>"His repentance is not accepted. He lied, may Allah curse him. That could not come out of a heart with sound belief."</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Ahmad ibn Abi Sulayman,</b> the companion of <b>Sahnun,</b> said,</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">إن النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم كان أسود يقتل</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>"Anyone who says that the Prophet was black should be killed."</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Muhammad ibn Sahnun</b> said that</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">أجمع العلماء أن شاتم النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم المتقص له كافر . و الوعيد جار عليه بعذاب الله ، و حكمه عند الأمة القتل ، و من شك في كفره و عذابه كفر</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">The 'ulama' agree that anyone who reviles the Prophet anddisparages him is an unbeliever and the threat of Allah's punishment is on him. The community's judgment on him is that he be killed. Anyone who has any doubts about such a person's disbelief and punishment is also an unbeliever.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Ibrahim ibn Husayn ibn Khalid,</b> the faqih, uses the instance of<b>Khalid ibn al-Walid</b> killing Malik ibn Nuwayra for referring to the <b>Prophet </b>as "your companion."</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Abu Sulayman al-Khattabi</b> said,</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">لا أعلم أحداً من المسلمين اختلف في وجوب قتله إذا كان مسلماً</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">"I do not know of any Muslim who disagrees about the necessity of killing such a person if he is a Muslim."</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Ibn al-Qasim</b> reports from Malik in the book of Ibn Sahnun, the Mabsut, and the 'Utibiyya and Ibn Mutarrif relate the same from Malik in the book of Ibn Habib,</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">من سب النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم من المسلمين قتل ، و لم يستتب</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">"Any Muslim who curses the Prophet is killed without being asked to repent."</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Ibn al-Qasim</b> said in the 'Utibiyya,</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">من سبه أو شتمه أو عابه أو تنقصه فإنه يقتل ، و حكمه عند الأمة القتل كالزنديق</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">"<span style="color: red;">Anyone </span>who curses him, reviles him, finds fault with him ordisparages him is killed. The community says that he should be killed just like the dualist. Allah made it obligatory to respect the Prophet and be dutiful to him."</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">In the Mabsut from <b>'Uthman ibn Kinana</b> we find,</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">من شتم النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم من المسلمين قتل أو صلب حياً و لم يستتب و الإمام مخير في صلبه حياً أو قتله</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">"Any Muslim who reviles the Prophet is killed or crucified<span style="color: red;">without being asked to repent</span>. The Imam can choose between crucifying him and killing him."</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Abu'l-Mus'ab</b> and <b>Ibn Abi Uways</b>, they heard <b>Malik </b>say,</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">من سب رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم ، أو شتمه ، أو عابة ، أو تنقصه ـ قتل مسلماً كان أو كافراً ، و لا يستتاب</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">"<span style="color: red;">Anyone </span>who curses the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, reviles him, finds fault with him ordisparages him is killed, <b>be he Muslim</b> or unbeliever, <b>without being asked to repent</b>."</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Habib ibn Rabi' al-Qarawi</b> said that</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">مذهب مالك و أصحابه أن من قال فيه صلى الله عليه و سلم : ما فيه نقص ـ قتل دون استتابة</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>The school of Malik and his companions is that anyone who says anything disparaging about the Prophet is killed without being asked to repent.</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>--</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>Ibn 'Attab</b> said that</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">الكتاب و السنة موجبان أن من قصد النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم بأذى أو نقص ، معرضاً أو مصرحاً ، و إن قل ـ فقتله واجب ، فهذا الباب كله مما عده ا لعلماء سباً أو تنقصاً يجب قتل قائله ، لم يختلف في ذلك متقدمهم ولا متأخرهم</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>The Book and Sunnah require that someone who intends to even slightly harm or disparage the Prophet, either by allusion or clear statement, must be killed. </b>Anything like this which is something that the 'ulama' consider to be a curse or disparagement necessitates that the one who says it be killed. Neither the early or later people disagree about that.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>-------------------------------------------------------</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">===========================================</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><b>If you want answers to </b><b>Usman Deobandi's videos, </b><b>you can see:</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads%2Fmawlana-umar-ichrawi-on-hazir-nazir.14259%2F&fbclid=IwAR3n1QKKiPcdMsuyay3f09EPhgPHZ4afwpCCELrjMAOzcxscYVlZtoRycr8">http://sunniport.com/index.php...</a></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads%2Fanwaar-e-shariat-on-nabiy-isa-%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%87-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B3%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%85.14258%2F&fbclid=IwAR00ovQxwReTy308rpYg8wC1O9GY9pe5hKVHORZnoQpGuD9-mvif_m46dVc">http://sunniport.com/index.php...</a></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads%2Fdevbandi-debates-from-100-years.14211%2F&fbclid=IwAR00DKqYx8tl7cIZpoh2Xdot-iAxHJFAl_vFhlAML_m4dzeEOJ2dsI1DGJs">http://sunniport.com/index.php...</a></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads%2Fanwaar-e-shariat-on-imam-bukhari.14257%2F&fbclid=IwAR3n1QKKiPcdMsuyay3f09EPhgPHZ4afwpCCELrjMAOzcxscYVlZtoRycr8">http://sunniport.com/index.php...</a></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads%2Fdeobandi-claims-blasphemy-in-malfuzat-alahazrat.14230%2F&fbclid=IwAR3fS719ijlK-Wphcx7PVVzNtCnhy28OQYpKjLH6x2jDfYMLYad4gZoUL08">http://sunniport.com/index.php...</a></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">--</div><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><img loading="lazy" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEidosvj8qnsLDEtZ2GrKNef_RP89SoyNQL6tlouvp9qu95008vUsfso3CvZ0GvUtbRIE9tJmrj6nZKgLVPKFADBrKN-VmOEGyl706CnfprMPT-9O93O9IwrYQEIyMiXzwGqveIukxxbtHqd/s280-rw/Shaykh+Asrar+v+Usman+Deoband.jpg" style="max-width: 90%; padding: 4px;" /></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-family: sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><span style="font-size: 1.5em;"><b>Shaykh Asrar Rashid & Usman Deobandi Videos</b></span></div><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;"><span style="font-size: 1.5em;"><b> </b></span><a href="https://salafiaqeedah.blogspot.com/2019/01/usman-deobandis-videos.html"><b><span style="font-size: 1.5em;"><b>HERE</b></span></b></a></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-family: sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><br /><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: -webkit-center;"></div><div style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">---</div><div style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-family: sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><br /><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: sans-serif; text-align: left;">(Edited by ADHM)</div></div>

Deobandis Refuse Explicit Kufr in Hifzul Imaan

Deobandis Refuse Explicit Kufr in Hifzul Imaan Deobandis   insist  on justification for  Kufr  statement in  Hifzul Imaan    by their elder ...

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Pre -Debate (Shaykh Asrar Rashid vs Usman Iqbal Deobandi)

<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><div class="date-outer" style="background-color: white; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 13px;"><div class="date-posts"><div class="post-outer"><div class="post hentry" style="border-bottom: 1px dotted rgb(0, 0, 0); margin: 0.5em 0px 1.5em; padding-bottom: 1.5em;"><div class="post-body entry-content" style="line-height: 1.6em; margin: 0px 0px 0.75em;"><h1 class="title style-scope ytd-video-primary-info-renderer" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-image: initial; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-size: initial; border: 0px; line-height: 2.4rem; margin: 0px; max-height: 4.8rem; overflow: hidden; padding: 0px; text-shadow: var(--ytd-video-primary-info-renderer-title-text-shadow, none); transform: var(--ytd-video-primary-info-renderer-title-transform, none);"><yt-formatted-string class="style-scope ytd-video-primary-info-renderer" style="--yt-endpoint-color: hsl(206.1, 79.3%, 52.7%);"><span style="font-family: georgia, "times new roman", serif; font-size: small;">Shaykh Asrar Rashid & <span style="color: #cc0000;">Usman Deobandi</span></span></yt-formatted-string></h1><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiTw6qf1R-wnVWRH73KgIXyw4F2U7AUSynCP8o7ck4lgvwYtmdurp_dC1ZsW5dht0iBq6wD6_tAfooSrslsEwz1bcDOSYjJvbZVnY6eNXL2IOuKNdzLkB5WrktQmgrhtheLJ7yElvmTXIHD/s1600/Shaykh+Asrar+Rashid+%2526+Usman+Deobandi.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><img border="0" height="180" loading="lazy" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiTw6qf1R-wnVWRH73KgIXyw4F2U7AUSynCP8o7ck4lgvwYtmdurp_dC1ZsW5dht0iBq6wD6_tAfooSrslsEwz1bcDOSYjJvbZVnY6eNXL2IOuKNdzLkB5WrktQmgrhtheLJ7yElvmTXIHD/s320-rw/Shaykh+Asrar+Rashid+%2526+Usman+Deobandi.jpg" style="border: 1px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 4px;" width="320" /></a><br /><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"></span><br /><div><div class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: georgia, serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Pre -Debate</span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt;"> (Shaykh Asrar Rashid vs <span style="color: #c00000;">Usman Iqbal Deobandi</span>)<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: georgia, serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: #cc0000;">devbandi</span> debates from 100 years </span></b><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads%2Fdevbandi-debates-from-100-years.14211%2F&fbclid=IwAR0NiuxUel5Wbd7XSufvprzwQGoE-xM9SA2Ok-B_tKxq-8p88ols_h7t2Us" style="color: red; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="color: blue;">Here</span></b></a></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: georgia, serif;"><div><br /></div><span style="font-size: 12px;">==========================================</span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: georgia, serif;"><b><span style="color: #141414; font-size: 9pt;">Anwaar e Shariat on Imam Bukhari </span></b><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads%2Fanwaar-e-shariat-on-imam-bukhari.14257%2F&fbclid=IwAR3KUGqFV-EemPiRAWQDKJiyg8aRyrvjHor8pobd21aDvzfgvmaEutPNWtk" style="color: red; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="color: blue;">Here</span></b></a></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: georgia, serif;"><span style="font-size: 12px;">==========================================</span><br /><span style="font-size: 12px;">--</span><br /><span style="font-size: 12px;">==========================================</span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: georgia, serif;"><b><span style="color: #c00000; font-size: 9pt;">deobandi </span><span style="font-size: 9pt;">claims </span><span style="color: #c00000; font-size: 9pt;">blasphemy </span></b><b><span style="font-size: 9pt;">in</span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt;"> <b>malfuzat</b> (alahazrat) </span><b style="font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: blue; font-size: 9pt;"><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads%2Fdeobandi-claims-blasphemy-in-malfuzat-alahazrat.14230%2F&fbclid=IwAR1C3F7MExnot2RBa5Ez-_zQsKeCZnx90svtU3Rd54KmYxMwaxqXePyvghk" style="color: red; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration-line: none;">Here</a></span></b></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: georgia, serif;"><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="background: rgb(252, 252, 255); font-size: 9pt;">Abu Hasan</span><span style="background: rgb(252, 252, 255); font-size: 9pt;">: “ <b>if </b><span style="color: #cc0000;">indeed,</span> <b>alahazrat </b>(al-iyadhu billah) <span style="color: #cc0000;">committed a blasphemy</span>,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="background: rgb(252, 252, 255); font-size: 9pt;">Why were your elders sleeping?</span></b><span style="background: rgb(252, 252, 255); font-size: 9pt;"> or <span style="color: #c00000;">were they stoned?</span><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="background: rgb(252, 252, 255); font-size: 9pt;">Why did not<span style="color: #c00000;"> thanawi </span>write a refutation?<o:p></o:p></span></b></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="background: rgb(252, 252, 255); font-size: 9pt;">Where were <span style="color: #c00000;">all your <b>musketeers</b> </span>and <span style="color: #c00000;">knights<b> </b></span><b>hiding</b> all these years?<o:p></o:p></span></div><span style="font-size: 9pt;"></span><br /><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="background: rgb(252, 252, 255); font-size: 9pt;">Remember one thing:<b> if they were indeed</b> <span style="color: #cc0000;">blasphemies</span>, and <b>you cannot produce <span style="color: #c00000;">Fatawa</span></b> of <span style="color: #c00000;">your scholars </span><b>FROM BACK THEN</b> - that will<b><span style="color: #c00000;">rebound </span></b><span style="color: #c00000;">on <b>your maulvis </b>too</span>, <b><span style="color: #c00000;">who kept silent.</span>”</b></span><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><br /><span style="font-size: 9pt;">==========================================</span><br /><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: #c00000;">Deobandi</span></span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt;"> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keNDEeK4omU" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;">Here</a> said <span style="color: #c00000;">(Asrar Rashid: Blasphemy 1 - Prophet ISA Alayhis Salaam Failed)</span><o:p></o:p></span><br /><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: #c00000;">--</span></span></div></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: georgia, serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Anwaar e Shariat on Nabiy Isa</span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">عليه السلام</span><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads%2Fanwaar-e-shariat-on-nabiy-isa-%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%87-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B3%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%85.14258%2F&fbclid=IwAR3R1tKSdd6uGDCi5RgeaihHZlw65N7AtLzryYkR-BE8eM1zs8laE9bmvLY" style="color: red; font-size: 12px; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="color: blue;">Here</span></b></a></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: georgia, serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Abu Hasan: “<b>one thing is now certain</b>. <b>mufti nizamuddin multani</b>is <span style="color: red;">not </span>among alahazrat's <span style="color: red;">students</span> (the tone and careless choice of words is a clear marker. one of the common benefits of being in the company of alahazrat's books and students, is that one speaks about elder ulama, saHabah, prophets and especially, sayyiduna RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam with deference and respect due to them - and being careful in the words and idoms used.”<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: georgia, serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads%2Fanwaar-e-shariat-on-nabiy-isa-%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%87-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B3%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%85.14258%2F&fbclid=IwAR3R1tKSdd6uGDCi5RgeaihHZlw65N7AtLzryYkR-BE8eM1zs8laE9bmvLY" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="color: blue;">Here</span></b></a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: georgia, serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span><br /><span style="font-size: 9pt;">========================================</span><br /><span style="font-size: 9pt;"></span><br /><div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 13.8px;"><span style="color: #c00000;">Deobandi </span></span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 13.8px;"><span style="color: blue;"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4TaL8Jitu8" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;">Here</a> </span>said <span style="color: #c00000;">(Asrar Rashid: Blasphemy 2- Disgusting Blasphemy Against Our Prophet </span></span><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="color: #c00000; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt; line-height: 13.8px;">ﷺ</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="color: #c00000; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt; line-height: 13.8px;"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>)</span><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 13.8px;"><o:p></o:p></span><br /><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt; line-height: 13.8px;">--</span></div></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: georgia, serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Mawlana Umar Ichrawi on hazir nazir </span></b><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads%2Fmawlana-umar-ichrawi-on-hazir-nazir.14259%2F&fbclid=IwAR2TKxw28v59Mw6aT85Ff3_zK6s-NiMBm1EzHdygjD_2FZoBVPQWpCuiDsM" style="color: red; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="color: blue;">Here</span></b></a></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: georgia, serif;">--<br /></div><div><span style="font-family: georgia, "times new roman", serif; font-size: xx-small;">===============================================</span></div><div style="font-family: georgia, serif;"><yt-formatted-string class="style-scope ytd-video-primary-info-renderer" style="--yt-endpoint-color: hsl(206.1, 79.3%, 52.7%);"><span style="font-family: georgia, "times new roman", serif; font-size: small;"><b><span style="color: red;">*Jan </span>2019</b></span></yt-formatted-string><br /><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: #c00000;">Deobandi</span> </span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR9R93VLfUc" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><span style="color: blue;">Here</span></a> said (<span style="color: #c00000;">Asrar Rashid: Blasphemy 3- Molvi Ahmad Ridha Khan's Blasphemy Based On His Father's Principle</span>)<o:p></o:p></span><br /><span style="font-size: 9pt;">--</span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="color: #c00000; font-size: 9pt;">Usman devbandi</span></b><span style="color: #c00000; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 9pt;">on using<b> 'tuu'</b> for RasulAllah </span><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">ﷺ</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span lang="AR-SA" style="font-size: 9pt;"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> </span><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads/usman-devbandi-on-using-tuu-for-rasulallah-%EF%B7%BA.14265/#post-67137" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="color: blue;">Here</span></b></a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Abu Hasan: <b>so 'tuu' is blasphemy?</b><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">according to usman devbandi, <b><span style="color: #cc0000;">mahmud al-hasan devbandi</span></b> is a<b>blasphemer;</b> so also<span style="color: #cc0000;"><b> shafi usmani.</b></span><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><b>please note </b>the same verses: <a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads/usman-devbandi-on-using-tuu-for-rasulallah-%EF%B7%BA.14265/#post-67108" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;">Here</a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: #cc0000;">mahmud hasan devbandi's</span> <b><span style="color: #cc0000;">translation.</span></b> perhaps <span style="color: #cc0000;">usman</span> needs to look up who <b><span style="color: #cc0000;">mahmud al-hasan</span></b> is, do look up and call him a <b><span style="color: #cc0000;">blasphemer. </span></b>please do, please do.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">of course, <b><span style="color: #cc0000;">taqi usmani</span></b> <b>may not like it</b>, but usman devbandi calls shafi usmani a blasphemer. enjoy zameel and co.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">(<b>note:</b> none of the 'barelwis' ever called them blasphemers, for using the word <b>'tuu'</b>)<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><b>shafi usmani</b> munafiqun: <span style="color: blue;"><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads/usman-devbandi-on-using-tuu-for-rasulallah-%EF%B7%BA.14265/#post-67108" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;">Here</a></span></span><br />--<br />======================================</div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><b><span style="color: #990000;">Deobandis </span></b></span><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><b><span style="color: #990000;">charge</span></b> <span style="color: red;">Blasphemy </span>on <b>mawlana abdu'l sami'y rampuri </b></span><b style="font-size: 9pt;"><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads%2Fdeobandis-charge-blasphemy-on-mawlana-abdul-samiy-rampuri.14263%2F&fbclid=IwAR1NyykDYX4WZJ37HzeEJ8SwORpfBZ3A1g8pPBn-d8way0GDAGIDLDDZuR8" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><span style="color: blue;">Here</span></a></b></span><br /><span style="font-size: 9pt;">--</span><br /><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">==========================================</span></div></div><div style="font-family: georgia, serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 13.8px;"><span style="color: #c00000;">Deobandi </span></span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 13.8px;"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWQHmVblQ94" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><span style="color: blue;">Here</span></a> said:<span style="color: #c00000;"> (Asrar Rashid: Blasphemy 4- Molvi Ahmad Ridha Khan's Blasphemy Against Aisha (RA)</span></span></div><div style="font-family: georgia, serif;"><yt-formatted-string class="style-scope ytd-video-primary-info-renderer" style="--yt-endpoint-color: hsl(206.1, 79.3%, 52.7%);"><span style="color: red; font-family: georgia, "times new roman", serif; font-size: xx-small;"><b>--</b></span></yt-formatted-string></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: georgia, serif;"><br /></div></div></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: georgia, serif;"><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Sayyidah Ayishah</span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt;"> and <b>Malfuzat </b>e <b>Alahazrat<span style="color: blue;"> </span></b></span><span style="color: blue; font-size: 9pt;"><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads%2Fsayyidah-ayishah-and-malfuzat-e-alahazrat.14268%2F&fbclid=IwAR3TakU95GGoVZM-QZIbjEsZyZ5NDUvJb81nv6kjAVWfMiGyZLSavtzJ90Y" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b>Here</b></a></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Abu Hasan: <b>alahazrat </b>said: "<b>sayyidah ayishah </b>raDi'Allahu `anha<b> said something and if anyone else would say that, he would be executed".</b> this is a hadith from musnad abi ya'ala. (<a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads/sayyidah-ayishah-and-malfuzat-e-alahazrat.14268/#post-67133" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;">Here</a>)<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-size: 9pt;">sayyidah ayishah</span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt;"> raDi'Allahu anha <b>was upset at something and she said to RasulAllah </b>sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam: <span style="color: blue;">"Do you not claim that you are the Messenger of Allah"? <b>RasulAllah</b> sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam<b>smiled and said</b>: "<b>Umm Abdallah, do you doubt it?" she says, i repeated: "Do you not claim that you are the Messenger of Allah? Why don't you do justice?"</b></span><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: blue;"><b>--</b></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-size: 9pt;">tell me would it be pardonable for any muslim to tell RasulAllah</span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt;">SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam:<span style="color: #c00000;"> <b>"you are the one who claims that he is the Messenger of Allah?" </b></span><b>(al-iyadhu billah.)</b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-size: 9pt;">alahazrat is only emphasising the <span style="color: blue;">greatness</span></span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt;"> of <b>sayyidah ayishah</b>and <b>the</b><span style="color: blue;"> <b>special status</b></span> <b>she had with RasulAllah</b> sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam, and <b>how<span style="color: blue;"> beloved</span> she was was to him</b>. raDi'Allahu anha wa SallAllahu `alayhi wa sallam. </span><b style="font-size: 9pt;">but trust a</b><span style="font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="color: #c00000; font-size: 9pt;">deobandi </span><span style="font-size: 9pt;">to</span><span style="color: #c00000; font-size: 9pt;"> twist </span><span style="font-size: 9pt;">it into </span><b style="font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: #c00000;">insult! </span></b><b style="font-size: 9pt;">la Hawla wa la quwwata illa billah.</b></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Scans page,331: <a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?attachments/screenshot_20190113-221812_adobe-acrobat-jpg.5286/" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;">Here</a> page,332: <a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?attachments/screenshot_20190113-214138_adobe-acrobat-jpg.5287/" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;">Here</a></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span><br /><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><br /></span><span style="font-size: 9pt;">===========================================</span><br /><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: #c00000;">Deobandi</span></span></b><span style="color: #c00000; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd041HbAuw0" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;">Here</a> said: (<span style="color: #c00000;">Asrar Rashid: Blasphemy 5- Molvi Ahmad Ridha Khan's Blasphemy Against The Prophet (</span></span><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="color: #c00000; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">ﷺ</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="color: #c00000; font-size: 9pt;"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>) and His Wives</span><span style="font-size: 9pt;">)<o:p></o:p></span><br /><span style="font-size: 9pt;">--</span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Shab bāshī</span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt;"> - <b>spending the night</b><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads/shab-b%C4%81sh%C4%AB-spending-the-night.14271/#post-67165" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"> <span style="color: blue;"><b>Here</b></span></a></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Abu Hasan:<b> imam muhammad ibn abdu'l baqi al-zurqani</b> is famous for his sharh of mawahib al-ladunniyyah of imam al-qaSTallani. </span><span style="font-size: 9pt;">he born in 1055 AH and passed away in 1122 AH. his father is the famous maliki scholar, imam abdul Baqi ibn yusuf al-zurqani, the exegete of mukhtaSar al-khalil. among the works of al-zurqani (the son) are: anwar kawakib nahj al-salik sh. muwaTTa' imam malik and sharh al-bayquniyah.</span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">this devvie (<span style="color: #cc0000;">deobandi</span>) says <b><span style="color: #cc0000;">that imam zurqani did not say it anywhere</span></b>.<b>but it can be found in the sharh al-mawahib, v.8 p.358 as shown below.</b> (aqdas had already posted but here is a screenshot of the printed page).<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><b>now will he retract?</b> and <b>apologise?</b> (don't hold your breath...) </span><span style="font-size: 9pt;">but there are other mistakes. the <span style="color: #cc0000;">devbandi </span>says <span style="color: #cc0000;">that they believe in the lives of prophets after their passing</span>. but <b><span style="color: #cc0000;">thanawi </span></b>said<b><span style="color: #cc0000;"> that their lives are 'barzakhiyah'</span></b>. this has led to an internal disagreement with devs (<span style="color: #cc0000;">deobandis</span>), calling <span style="color: #cc0000;">hayati</span> and <span style="color: #cc0000;">mamati</span> devs (deobandis), even though all of them are soulless beings.</span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><b>notice </b>in the snippet, i have posted from <b>zurqani,</b> that <b>imam subki</b> said (and zurqani affirmed) <b>that their lives are 'haqiqiyah', real, and not just figurative.</b><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><b>also note</b> that alahazrat's statement from <b>al-malfuz</b> speaks in respectful tone<span style="color: #cc0000;">, unlike</span> the <b>'explanation' by the<span style="color: #cc0000;"> filthy deobandi </span>which are from his own mind - not found in al-malfuz.</b><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">[zurqani: scan <a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads/shab-b%C4%81sh%C4%AB-spending-the-night.14271/#post-67151" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;">Here</a>]<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Abu Hasan: as for <span style="color: #cc0000;">mr.devbandi's <b>holier-than-thou </b>outburst on talking about parents </span>etc. and making a scene about alahazrat's use of a rather demure word '<b>shab-bashi'</b>, i advise him to please look up<span style="color: #cc0000;"> deo literature</span> for their treatment of such subjects. hope he has some advice for <span style="color: #cc0000;">qasim nanotvi</span>, who examines in this topic in detail his <b><span style="color: #cc0000;">aab e Hayaat.</span></b> but of course,<span style="color: #cc0000;">zameel-e-shaytan</span> will drop from somewhere to justify the most outrageous things <span style="color: #cc0000;">devs</span> say, but vilify harmless words said by sunnis. <b>also in cases where both parties have said the same thing</b> (such as the<b><span style="color: #cc0000;"> tuu</span></b> issue),<span style="color: #cc0000;">devs</span> vilify sunnis, <b>all the while sitting on a high horse praising the usage of <span style="color: #cc0000;">their own elders</span>.</b> la Hawla wa la quwwata illa billah. [</span><span style="font-size: 9pt;">download qasim's work </span><a href="https://archive.org/download/Aab-e-...ab-e-HayatByShaykhMuhammadQasimNanotvir.a.pdf" style="color: red; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration-line: none;">Here</a> <span style="font-size: 9pt;">[archive.org/download/Aab-e-...ab-e-Hayat By Qasim Nanotvi]</span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><b><span style="color: #cc0000;">1323</span> edition</b> </span><a href="https://archive.org/details/AabEHayatByMolanaQasimNanotvi" style="color: red; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration-line: none;">Here </a><span style="font-size: 9pt;"> [archive.org/details/AabEHayat By Molana Qasim Nanotvi]</span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 12px;">--</span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">while <b><span style="color: #cc0000;">thanawi </span></b>said that <span style="color: #cc0000;">the life of nabiy sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam is 'barzakhiyah'</span>,<b><span style="color: #cc0000;"> khalil </span>flatly <span style="color: #cc0000;">refused</span> it in his <span style="color: #cc0000;">muhannad</span></b>. so <span style="color: #cc0000;">deos</span> can have a version for the right occasion. and of course, have a middle-ground to link both: "duniyawiyyah-barzakhiyyah" the left-right, the whitest-black. </span><span style="font-size: 9pt;">they try hard to be vague and equivocating - so they can jump over to either side as the occasion demands. </span><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads/shab-b%C4%81sh%C4%AB-spending-the-night.14271/#post-67152" style="color: red; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration-line: none;">Here</a><br /></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 12px;">==========================================</span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000; font-size: 9pt;">Deobandi</span><span style="font-size: 9pt;"> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah5mxinyOhA" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><span style="color: blue;">Here</span></a>  said: (<span style="color: #c00000;">Molvi Ahmad Raza Khan Says The Pious Watch Husband & Wife Intimacy</span><span style="color: #cc0000;"><span style="color: #c00000;"> Live</span>!</span>)<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">--</span><br /><span style="font-size: 9pt;"></span><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="color: #c00000; font-size: 9pt;">devbandis</span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt;"> <span style="color: red;"><b>traducing</b></span> <b>alahazrat </b>for <b>ibriz </b>quote <b><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads/devbandis-traducing-alahazrat-for-ibriz-quote.14272/#post-67183" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;">Here</a></b></span></div></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Abu Hasan: <b>alahazrat </b>wrote hundreds of books. and fatawa. but they are all beyond the reach of these <span style="color: #cc0000;">farceurs and punchinellos</span>. they <span style="color: #cc0000;">pick up comments</span>from his <b>malfuz sharif</b> which are short <b>impromptu answers</b> and <span style="color: #cc0000;">try to twist them, <b>quote</b> out of context and lie.</span><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">if the <span style="color: #cc0000;">devbandi </span>has <b>guts</b> - <b>i dare him to read the first ten pages of sub'Han al-subbuH, </b>if he wants to show off his scholarship. and with Allah as his witness (that is, if he believes in Allah and judgement day),<b> let him try to read it and make a video about it.</b><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">-<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">he <span style="color: #cc0000;">himself</span> is reading that <b>alahazrat has quoted </b>sijilmasi<b> from</b> <b>his</b> al-ibriz; <b>alahazrat is only reporting it</b>. and if he must indeed create a scene about this statement, <b>he should <span style="color: red;">excoriate </span>sijilmasi </b>and<b> al-ibriz <span style="color: #cc0000;">instead</span> of alahazrat.</b><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">-<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><b>kitab al-ibriz,</b> p.31:<a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads/shaykh-being-omnipresent.14272/#post-67169" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;">Here</a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">-<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: #cc0000;">Deobandi Scholar Mawlana <b>Aashiq Ilahi Merathi </b></span>has translated this book.<b>Here is the scan of his translation.</b> </span><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Translation of </span><b style="font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: #cc0000;">Deobandi Edition</span><span style="color: #cc0000;">of</span><span style="color: #cc0000;"> Al Ibriz:</span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="color: blue; font-size: 9pt;"><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads/shaykh-being-omnipresent.14272/#post-67171" style="color: red; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration-line: none;">Here</a></span><br />--</div></div><span style="font-size: 12px;">=========================================</span><br /><div><span style="font-size: 9pt;"></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Reply</span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt;"> to <span style="color: #c00000;">zameel Deobandi </span>on <b>Alahazrat <a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads/reply-to-zameel-deobandi-on-alahazrat.14273/#post-67182" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;">Here</a></b><o:p></o:p></span></div><span style="font-size: 12px;">=========================================</span><br /><span style="font-size: 12px;">--</span><br /><span style="font-size: 12px;">=========================================</span><br /><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000; font-size: 9pt;">Deobandis </span><b><span style="color: red; font-size: 9pt;">Frothing</span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt;"> <b>Heresy <a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads/deobandis-frothing-heresy.14267/#post-67177" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;">Here</a></b><o:p></o:p></span><br /><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Abu Hasan: <b>notice</b> that <b>shaykh barzanji repeats </b>in <b>arabic what alahazrat</b> said in <b>mutamad </b>and <b>attests his takfir,</b>saying <b>if they said so, they are <span style="color: red;">kafir</span>.</b><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: #cc0000;">deos</span> <b>translate BACK</b> from the <b>arabic </b>to<b> urdu </b>- <b>which confirms that alahazrat's translation in arabic was accurate! </b></span><b style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">compare it with original ibarat.</b></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">-<o:p></o:p></span></div><span style="font-size: 9pt;"></span><br /><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><b>now tell me where did shaykh barzanji retract?</b><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">=========================================</span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">--</span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><br /></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><br /></span></div></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">(Edited by ADHM)</span></div><div style="clear: both;"></div></div><div class="post-footer" style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", Trebuchet, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 10.14px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; letter-spacing: 0.1em; line-height: 1.4em; margin: 0.75em 0px; text-transform: uppercase;"><div class="post-footer-line post-footer-line-1"><span class="post-author vcard"></span><span class="post-timestamp"></span><span class="post-icons"><span class="item-action"><a href="https://www.blogger.com/email-post.g?blogID=4800640748747068298&postID=6152887531409557226" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;" title="Email Post"><img alt="" class="icon-action" height="13" loading="lazy" src="http://www.blogger.com/img/icon18_email.gif" style="border: 1px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.5em !important; padding: 4px; vertical-align: middle;" width="18" /> </a></span></span><span class="post-backlinks post-comment-link"><a class="comment-link" href="http://salafiaqeedah.blogspot.com/2019/01/usman-deobandis-videos.html?m=0#links" style="color: red; margin-left: 0.6em; text-decoration-line: none; white-space: nowrap;">LINKS TO THIS POST</a></span></div><div class="post-footer-line post-footer-line-2"><span class="post-labels"></span></div><div class="post-footer-line post-footer-line-3"><span class="post-location"></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="date-outer" style="background-color: white; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 13px;"><h2 class="date-header" style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", Trebuchet, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 10.14px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: 0.2em; line-height: 1.4em; margin: 1.5em 0px 0.5em; text-transform: uppercase;">THURSDAY, 10 JANUARY 2019</h2><div class="date-posts"><div class="post-outer"><div class="post hentry" style="border-bottom: 1px dotted rgb(0, 0, 0); margin: 0.5em 0px 1.5em; padding-bottom: 1.5em;"><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="1101472137073778550"></a><h3 class="post-title entry-title" style="font-size: 18.2px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 1.4em; margin: 0.25em 0px 0px; padding: 0px 0px 4px;"><a href="http://salafiaqeedah.blogspot.com/2019/01/deobandi-cult-1901.html?m=0" style="color: black; display: block; text-decoration-line: none;">Deobandis Refuse Explicit Kufr in Hifzul Imaan</a></h3><div class="post-header-line-1"></div><div class="post-body entry-content" style="line-height: 1.6em; margin: 0px 0px 0.75em;"><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Deobandis</span></b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <b>insist </b>on <span style="color: #c00000;">justification </span>for <b>Kufr </b><span style="color: #c00000;">statement </span>in <b><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="http://salafiaqeedah.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/hifzul-imaan-1319ah-1901ce.html" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><span style="color: #c00000;">Hifzul Imaan</span></a></span></b><a href="http://salafiaqeedah.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/hifzul-imaan-1319ah-1901ce.html" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><span style="color: windowtext;"> </span></a> by <span style="color: #c00000;">their elder </span></span><b><span style="color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Ashraf Ali Thanvi</span></b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: #c00000;"> (d.</span><b style="color: #c00000;">1943 </b><span style="color: #c00000;">CE) </span><b><span style="color: blue;"><a href="http://salafiaqeedah.blogspot.com/2015/11/hifzul-imaan-1319ah-1901ce.html" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;">Here</a></span></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: georgia, "times new roman", serif;"><o:p>--</o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p><br /></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">When we talk about cults, we talk about blind following and being unapologetic for even those things that are blatantly inexcusable. <span style="color: blue;"><a href="http://salafiaqeedah.blogspot.com/2011/06/conversation-between-mr-h-and-mr-y-part.html" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;">Here</a></span><o:p></o:p></span></b></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /></span></b></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhW-vOTV_bVkI82lMKI5rO7HU-oU1YRoDmWKRa2K8rhB8kTOm7qG9zZ1apfFqvdg4x6CWVwI31tyNgEc_ADIeYm2RYI-SvjGyYoCVfpX_f7TQn3N49glq7Gpfujp_tKI04w41Ef1XnLbXuE/s1600/Deobandi+Cult.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><img border="0" height="180" loading="lazy" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhW-vOTV_bVkI82lMKI5rO7HU-oU1YRoDmWKRa2K8rhB8kTOm7qG9zZ1apfFqvdg4x6CWVwI31tyNgEc_ADIeYm2RYI-SvjGyYoCVfpX_f7TQn3N49glq7Gpfujp_tKI04w41Ef1XnLbXuE/s320-rw/Deobandi+Cult.jpg" style="border: 1px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 4px;" width="320" /></a></span></b></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><br /></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">If that's cultish, then aren't deobandis the biggest cult of all...?<o:p></o:p></span></b></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><br /></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">We're <b>not </b>just talking about justifying <span style="color: red;">haram</span>, such as a<b>shaykh </b>praising <span style="color: #cc0000;">deviants</span>, (<a href="http://salafiaqeedah.blogspot.com/2018/07/the-evil-within.html" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="color: blue;">Here</span></b></a>) <b>we're dealing with</b><b><span style="color: #c00000;">statements</span> of <span style="color: #c00000;">kufr;</span></b><span style="color: #c00000;"> </span>and <b>still <span style="color: #cc0000;">deobandis </span>refuse to accept.</b><o:p></o:p></span><br /><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><b><br /></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 18pt;">The Biggest <span style="color: #c00000;">Cult</span>!<o:p></o:p></span></b></div></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><br /></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><br /></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a> said: Are the beliefs of the Deobandis kufr or <b>is it that some of their statements are interpreted as kufr by non-Deobandis while they interpret them to not be kufr?</b><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">In other words, <b>do Deobandis actually admit to holding beliefs that are kufr?</b><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span><br /></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni response</span></b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">: <b>Course they don't. Otherwise why would they hold them?<o:p></o:p></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Their elders committed kufr by insulting RasulAllah (</span></b><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">صلى الله عليه وسلم</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>) </span></b><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">and the <span style="color: #cc0000;">deobandis</span> refuse to distance from those passages.</span></b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span><br /><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><b style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: blue;"><a href="http://salafiaqeedah.blogspot.com/2011/06/gustakh-e-rasool.html" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;">Here</a></span></span></b></span><br /><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--</span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a> said: <b>My question would be, what is the kufr if they don't interpret those passages as insulting RasulAllah?</b><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni response</span></b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">: </span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Interpretations are invalid in explicit words. 33 scholars of Haramayn and 268 of India ruled them as kufr.</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><b>Of course, they do not believe these passages are explicit (or implicit) insults.</b></span></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Are you saying there are no <b>non-Deobandi scholars</b> who did not interpret these passages as insults?<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">If some impartial <b>non-Deoband</b>i<b> scholars</b> understood them to not be insults, <b>maybe they are not explicit?</b><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">I say this, because <b>all excuses have to be exhausted before a statement is ruled to be kufr.</b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni Reply:</span></b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">  <span style="color: blue;"><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads%2Fa-fatwa-of-hafiz-ibn-taymiyyah.1825%2F&fbclid=IwAR2pA7K61YvLVGrHLK4eN_Snqe9LkKUttswcfxIa-pkMC_g_9KELahmyvyc#post-6736" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;" target="_blank">http://sunniport.com/index.php...</a></span><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">A fatwa of Hafiz <span style="color: red;">Ibn Taymiyyah</span><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">I was sent an English book called <b>"A Critique of Husam al-Haramayn".</b></span></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">In that book, on <b>page 85</b> it mentions that this phrase "<b>mitti mei milne</b>" idiomatically means "<b>to be buried</b>". It refers to dictionaries Nur-ul-Lughat, Jami-ul-Lughat, Munir-ul-Lughat and Sa'eed-ul-Lughat.</span></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><b>Maybe the other passages can have similar explanations.</b> <b>If so, it would be necessary to avoid calling them kufr.</b><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><br /></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni:</span></b> <span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam pretty sure Imam Ahmad Raza exhausted the hundreds of possibilities<b> over 13 years</b> of back and forth conversation with those </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #cc0000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">scholars of Deoband</span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> before he finally gave the fatwa of <b>Kufr.</b><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">And that's why explanations are not heard for explicit words, otherwise nothing would be kufr.</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/abu.sufian.501" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Mohammed Kamal Hussain</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> said: </span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">But then any Tom,Dick and Harry could put kufr upon anyone. </span></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Theses disputes have become like <b>Chinese whispers</b>. They will never end and <b>there is no point in trying to fix that which can’t be fix.Just don’t talk about it and carry on with life.</b><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">  </span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Well said. <b>That's why it wasn't</b> Thomas or Richard, it was <b>33 of the greats of Haramayn.<o:p></o:p></b></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><b>I'm sure Deobandis also point to some of the greats of Haramayn and other places who exonerated them of kufr.</b></span></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">If there is legitimate disagreement, <b>the view of it not being kufr is the safe position.</b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x"><b>That's where we come to this "</b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">exoneration</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">",</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">al-Muhannad</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">. <o:p></o:p></span></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">What exactly did they exonerate? (<a href="http://salafiaqeedah.blogspot.com/2012/03/why-did-deobandi-akabir-write-al.html" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;">Here</a>)</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">You can have a look yourself.</span><br /><span class="3l3x">I found this translation online: </span></span><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.themajlis.co.za/books/Al-Muhannad_%27ala_al-Mufannad_Translation.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1SF8xgGOlscXvhP5Rl0xymE57f9WQJtOoWtgVlmUPlixqqcl-2hF0LRfk" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;" target="_blank"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">https://www.themajlis.co.za/.../Al-Muhannad_%27ala_al...</span></a></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #cc0000;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Mohammed Kamal Hussain </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">said:</span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span></b></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">They say that many great ulamaah of haramayn and other say <b>there is nothing kufri in their books.</b><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--</span></span><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads%2Fa-fatwa-of-hafiz-ibn-taymiyyah.1825%2F&fbclid=IwAR3fS719ijlK-Wphcx7PVVzNtCnhy28OQYpKjLH6x2jDfYMLYad4gZoUL08#post-6736" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;" target="_blank"><span style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-image: initial; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-size: initial; color: #365899; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /></span></a><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x"><b>This is the reality of </b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Muhannad:</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /></span><a href="http://files.aqdas.webnode.com/200000093-e92f5ea2a9/muhannad.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3viP4aK7hx_BYunNxEJ51BhLofjYWAKMJ6XDjrZHtgacqasPwthQmPZWs" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;" target="_blank"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #365899; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">http://files.aqdas.webnode.com/200000093.../muhannad.pdf</span></a><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/abu.sufian.501" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Mohammed Kamal Hussain</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">Why is what you put correct and what Saman put incorrect or vice versus ?</span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x"><b>I am not in a position to assess the reliability of the historical information.</b><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Nor do I think most people are<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">Saman only posted a link to the book. <b>I posted why that book is a total </b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">deceit.</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">Under <b>question 20,</b> <b>one of the passages in dispute is written out in full:</b></span><br /><span class="3l3x">"Moreover, if this usage were correct for his holy essence (Allah bless him and grant him peace) according to the statement of a questioner, we will ask for clarification from him: <b>what does he mean by this ghayb?</b><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><br /></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Does he mean every particular from the particulars of ghayb or a part of it, <b>whichever part it may be?</b><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><br /></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><b>If he intended a part of the ghayb, there is no speciality in this for the Chief of Messengers</b> (Allah bless him and grant him peace), <b>since the knowledge of some ghayb, even if it is little, is attainable by Zayd and ‘Amr, rather every child and madman, rather all animals and beasts</b>, because every one of them knows something another does not know and [something that is] hidden from him.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><b>Hence, if the questioner permits the usage</b> [of the term] ‘<b>alim al ghayb for one because of his knowledge of a part of the ghayb, it would be necessary for him to allow its usage for all those mentioned</b>, and <b>if that was the case, it would not then be from the perfections of prophethood because they all share in it</b>; and<b> if it is not the case, he will be asked for a distinction, and will find no path to it</b>. [Here] ends the statement of <b>Shaykh al-Thanawi</b>."</span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">  <span class="3l3x"><b>Show me in the entire </b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Muhannad</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> the passages verbatim, as they appear in the original books. Time starts now.</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/abu.sufian.501" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Mohammed Kamal Hussain</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">  said: <span class="3l3x">He posted his source and posted yours, besides there are 100s of books from both groups not to mention YouTube clips. </span><span class="3l3x">It’s not correct to ask for clarification of a derbondi book from a brelvi or vice versa.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Also one could argue that it’s all semantics.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x"><b>I'm asking devbandis about their own book. If that book is an exoneration, show us the passages verbatim that ulama of Haramayn said weren't kufr.</b><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x"><b>Does the paragraph</b> that I quoted from <b>Muhannad </b>not accurately represent one of the passages in dispute?<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/abu.sufian.501" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Mohammed Kamal Hussain</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">  said: <span class="3l3x">More to the point why should a non drebondi have a say on what the text mean ?<b>Surly the students of the person would have a better understanding of what the text is implying also vice versa.</b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x"><b>Exoneration would only be if you quote the exact words and THEN ulama say they're not kufr. If the deobandis believed they weren't kufr, why not quote the precise words...</b><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/abu.sufian.501" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Mohammed Kamal Hussain</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> said: <span class="3l3x"><b>why should the burden of proof be upon the writer</b>, surly it’s upon the claimant. And from what I’ve seen both in writing and on YouTube, it seems all semantic driven by the mob from both sides.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x"><b>The writer's aimed to exonerate themselves by writing </b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Muhannad</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">. Where in that book are their passages that were deemed to be kufr by 33 ulama of Haramayn?</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">In the paragraph I have quoted above, what would you say requires changing to make it accurate?</span><br /><span class="3l3x"><b>Some things would obviously be lost in translation from Urdu to Arabic. </b></span><br /><span class="3l3x"><b>But what in your view makes the above paragraph not kufr and the original paragraph kufr?</b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/abu.sufian.501" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Mohammed Kamal Hussain</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">Exonerate or clarification ?</span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Thanwi </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">wrote: </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">aysa</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> ilm (</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">such knowledge</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">).</span></b></span><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x">Show me from your translated passage these words.</span></span></b><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjS2p4VMs3RZdaaQf-a8Mk4fSSHgfeFkpXV4m3oqqLNQYKHBqOa6JLurcx9v_3uHhSWwQvwVAc-7lGiBjZEGx7wd1G7TdjEkxVLjxFCnw2QFbbF_wy1EdQCwwTmSpURaw8kz8JTWp-j3lxs/s1600/it+is+in+Hifzul+iman.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><img border="0" height="247" loading="lazy" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjS2p4VMs3RZdaaQf-a8Mk4fSSHgfeFkpXV4m3oqqLNQYKHBqOa6JLurcx9v_3uHhSWwQvwVAc-7lGiBjZEGx7wd1G7TdjEkxVLjxFCnw2QFbbF_wy1EdQCwwTmSpURaw8kz8JTWp-j3lxs/s320-rw/it+is+in+Hifzul+iman.jpg" style="border: 1px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 4px;" width="320" /></a></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-image: initial; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-size: initial; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 3pt; vertical-align: middle;"><br /></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">"The knowledge of some ghayb" = "<b>aysa </b>ilm ghayb"<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">See page 63 of "A Critique of Husam al-Haramayn".<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x"><b>"Aysa"</b> can mean "this kind of", and is not necessarily used for comparison. So the words say, "This kind of ilm ghayb", or in the translation of Muhannad, "The knowledge of some ghayb", which is what "this kind of ilm ghayb" refers to.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x"><b>But didn't deobandis say it's for comparison? Tashbih.</b><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--</span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">I'm going by what's mentioned in the above work. Based on what I have mentioned, is the translation of Muhannad a linguistically valid meaning?<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x"><b>When </b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">aysa</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> is used and the mushabbah and mushabbah bihi are mentioned, it's for comparison. The words are in Urdu and that's the rule in Urdu.</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x">I've not even commented on the </span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">signatories of Muhannad </span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">yet..<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><span class="3l3x"><b>And why should we forget what deobandis themselves said about </b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">aysa</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">?</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Husain Ahmad Tandwi</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><b>, anyone?</b> </span></span><b style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 12px;"><span style="color: blue;">(<a href="http://salafiaqeedah.blogspot.com/2015/11/hifzul-imaan-1319ah-1901ce.html" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;">Here</a>)</span></b></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">Aysa seems equivalent to the English "such", as you have translated it. When it says "such knowledge of ghayb", could it not be referring to "the knowledge of some ghayb" as translated in Muhannad? Is this linguistically possible or not?</span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Aysa ilm e ghayb - 'such knowledge of ghayb'. </span></b></span><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x">So which two things is </span></span></b><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">SUCH </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">comparing?</span></b></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x"><b>If we accept partial knowledge for Zameel, then what is his speciality?</b><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Such knowledge is also held by animals and madmen.</span></b></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x"><b>Such is comparing Zameel with dogs and pigs.</b><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">"What Mawlana Ashraf Ali Thanavi <b>meant </b>was that if when Zayd says 'Alim al-Ghayb' (Knower of Unseen knowledge) only some of that knowledge of the Unseen is meant then what is the specification of the Messenger in that; for the like of that (i.e. some), and as a result of which Zayd is calling the Messenger “Knower of the Unseen knowledge”, is found with Zayd and Amar, in fact with every child, insane person, and even animal and beast. Therefore it would demand Zayd to call all of them (Allah Almighty forbid) “Knowers of the Unseen”. This has to be so as according to Zayd to be called Knower of the Unseen it is enough to have any piece of knowledge of the Unseen, and it is certain that all these beings have some knowledge of the Unseen. If they do not then at the very least they have knowledge of their Creator and that too comes under Unseen knowledge.</span><br /><br /><span class="3l3x">"Mawlana Ashraf Ali Thanavi <b>never meant</b> the kind of Unseen knowledge possessed by the Messenger of God is also possessed by the things he lists. Nor did he mean (Allah Almighty forbid) that the knowledge possessed by the Messenger is of the same level and equal to that which is possessed by every child, insane person, animals and beasts as has been portrayed by Mawlana Ahmad Raza Khan, as signified by his words: “See the parity he is creating between the Messenger of Allah and any insignificant being.”" (A Critique of Husam al-Haramayn, page 64)</span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">It is an interpretation to say RasulAllah is the "mushabbah".</span></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x">It is possible there is no mushabbah, and the word "aysa" means "this kind of knowledge of ghayb", referring to some knowledge of the unseen.</span><br /><span class="3l3x">Based on this, the rendition of Muhannad is a possible linguistic meaning and the original passage is not kufr.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x"><b>He mentioned the partial knowledge of RasulAllah </b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">صلى الله عليه وسلم</span></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span lang="AR-SA" style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">and compared it to animals.</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><br /><span class="3l3x"><b>What do you think, is this disrespectful to a chap called</b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Zameel:</span></b></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x"><b>If it means </b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Zameel </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">has partial knowledge, then what is special about him?<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Such knowledge is also held by animals and madmen.</span></b></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><br /><span class="3l3x"><b>Is that insulting the knowledge of </b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Zameel </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">or not?</span></b></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x"><b>Or </b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Thanwi </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">himself:</span></b></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x"><b>If we accept partial knowledge for </b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Ashraf Ali Thanwi </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">and because of that we call him aalim, then what is special about </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Thanwi</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">? Such knowledge is also held by animals and madmen.</span></b></span><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x">Hand on heart, would you accept that for </span></span></b><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Thanwi</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">?</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam </span></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">If, according to Khalil Anbethwi, there was no kufr in the passages on page 8 of Hifz al-Iman, page 51 of Barahin-e-Qati’ah and pages 3, 14 and 28 of Tahdhir al-Nas;</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <b>then what was he afraid of?</b><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">It was binding upon him to present the actual passages to the scholars of Haramayn and their correct translations and the meaning which he understood from them. He should then have asked the scholars of Haramayn whether these are the meanings of these passages or not and are they free from kufr or not? </span></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x"><b style="color: #1c1e21;">The climax of all dishonesty </b><span style="color: #1c1e21;">was that one passage was declared to be the summary of the meaning of </span><b><span style="color: #cc0000;">Barahin-e-Qati’ah. </span></b><span style="color: #1c1e21;">Another passage was said to be the summary of the subject of </span><b><span style="color: #cc0000;">Tahdhir al-Nas </span></b><span style="color: #1c1e21;">and at the end of another passage, he wrote that here end the words of </span></span><span class="3l3x" style="color: #cc0000;">Thanwi</span><span class="3l3x" style="color: #1c1e21;">. </span><br /><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="color: #1c1e21;">In </span><span style="color: #cc0000;">al Muhannad Khaleel Ambethwi </span><span style="color: #1c1e21;">never presented the</span><span style="color: #cc0000;">actual text</span><span style="color: #1c1e21;">. Remember that.</span></b><span style="color: #1c1e21;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">The subject is not knowledge or ilm in general, but knowledge of unseen and ilm al-ghayb.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Can you answer this question. Is the rendition of Muhannad a possible linguistic meaning?<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">It's not possible to present the actual text when you are communicating between languages! The question is whether the meaning was accurately conveyed.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni: </span></b><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam it is definetely possible.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Khaleel Ambethwi was a teacher in arabic literature. (</span></span><span class="3l3x"><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">شیخ ادب</span></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>)<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Khaleel made his own interpretation and presented it.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">When he can write a whole book in arabic. How can he not translate the passages?<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">This clearly reflects injustice and dishonesty that actual texts were not presented.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">No, it's not accurate and not a possible meaning.<b>Why? Because it was the word </b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">AYSA</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> that was the basis of kufr and it is that very word that </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Muhannad </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">omitted.</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x"><b>Alahazrat translated it: </b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">مثل هذا العلم بالغيب</span></b></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> so why didn't</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Anbethwi</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">?<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Why did he give his</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> interpretation </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">rather than a translation?</span></b></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Manzoor Numani </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">agreed with Alahazrat's translation, by the way.</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">Maybe he felt it was not necessary to provide a verbatim translation and it would be enough to convey the meaning.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">Saman Alam wow. One presents according to his own feelings. Where on earth this happens? Particularly when you are in court of Ulama Haramain<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x"><b>Ya RasulAllah (</b></span></span><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-image: initial; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-size: initial; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL"></span> <span lang="AR-SA">صلى الله عليه وسلم</span></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-image: initial; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-size: initial; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 10pt;"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>)</span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">! Unnecessary?! They were deemed kafirs for the verbatim. </span></b></span><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x">Why didn't he go to the SAME ulama who called </span></span></b><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Thanwi </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">a kafir and say, 'you've been duped. Here's the exact translation and this is the meaning.'</span></b></span><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x">You say Alahazrat lied.  Fine. Then why didn't </span></span></b><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Anbethwi</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">present the correct TRANSLATIONS according to HIM and get the fatwa of kufr retracted from the SAME scholars who called them kafirs...??</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><br /></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">“In the Urdu language the word <b>aysa</b> (like) has several meanings. The poet Ameer Minai in his famous Urdu lexicon Ameer al-Lughaat, explaining the word aysa, writes:</span><br /><span class="3l3x"><b>1. </b>Of this kind; used in a phrase such as, to make a pen-case like this is difficult for any person, (Aatish). Also, there is no beloved like her in the garden of the world – neither is there a rose that emits her fragrance nor is there a fruit with the like of her pleasure.</span><br /><span class="3l3x"><b>2.</b> This amount or extent; like (this) he struck him (<b>aysa maara</b>) such that he was left lifeless. Also,</span><br /><span class="3l3x">This wine-presser</span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: "times new roman", serif; font-size: 9pt;">‟</span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">s body is so (aysa) supple and clean</span></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x">that the religious believe it tantamount to a wave of wine</span><br /><span class="3l3x">Clearly it is possible to take either the meaning of like this kind or of this amount/extent. Keeping this in view the passage of<b>Mawlana Ashraf Ali Thanavi becomes completely faultless</b>and <b>under no circumstances can it be said he was guilty of blasphemy against the Messenger</b> (Allah forbid), <b>the very thought never crossed his mind.</b>” <b>(A Critique of Husam al-Haramayn, page 63)</b><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: inherit, serif; font-size: 10pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">It doesn't matter if the word is omitted, if what the word refers to is conveyed accurately.</span><br /><span class="3l3x"><b>Is it not possible </b>that "<b>aysa</b>" could mean "this kind of ilm al-ghayb", referring specifically to "some knowledge of the unseen"? <b>Is this a possible meaning or interpretation?</b><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: #1c1e21;">  </span><span class="3l3x"><span style="color: #1c1e21;">It's ok to take the meaning of 'this amount'</span><b><span style="color: #1c1e21;">? So now we're equating the </span><span style="color: #cc0000;">amount </span><span style="color: #1c1e21;">of knowledge of RasulAllah</span></b></span></span><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-image: initial; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-size: initial; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">صلى الله عليه وسلم</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span lang="AR-SA" style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>  </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">with animals! (Astaghfirullah)</span></b></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x"><b>Please, why don't you stop for the sake of your iman?</b><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">So now your passage becomes:</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: red; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">“<span style="color: #c00000;">Then what is extraordinary about RasūlAllāh in possessing it?</span><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: red;">This much knowledge of unseen is also possessed by all and sundry [Zayd, Amr]; even infants, lunatics and all the animals and quadrupeds.”</span><span style="color: #c00000;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">As far as I can see, this is just a matter of linguistic gymnastics. Deobandis clearly have their reasons, linguistic etc., <b>for believing this passage is not blasphemous</b>.<b>They presented their understanding, and were exonerated of kufr.</b></span><br /><span class="3l3x">"This amount" would mean "the amount of some knowledge of unseen", that is as opposed to "the amount of all knowledge of unseen", not "the amount of knowledge of RasulAllah"!</span><br /><span class="3l3x"><b>It seems you will jump to only the worst possible meaning.</b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x"><b>Then why say </b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">'amount</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">'? What is the need at all to mention amounts and quantities?</span></b></span><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x">You can just say partial or total unless you wish to equate the amount?</span><br /><span class="3l3x">Is the amount of partial knowledge of RasulAllah </span></span></b><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-image: initial; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-size: initial; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">صلى الله عليه وسلم</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span lang="AR-SA" style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>  </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">the same as animals? No! Then why say </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">aysa, </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">'this amount of partial knowledge of unseen is also held by animals.'</span></b></span><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x">Mentioning amounts with the word </span></span></b><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">aysa</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> is for what? The words </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">itnā</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> and is qadr come to mind...</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Amounts and extents are mentioned for quantities, not types.</span></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x">Partial knowledge is a type.</span><br /><span class="3l3x">Total knowledge is a type.</span><br /><span class="3l3x">Amount of partial knowledge is for quantity. </span><br /><span class="3l3x"><b>Do you deobandis have any intellect at all?</b><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">It would be rendered as, "This amount or extent of knowledge of unseen", not, "This amount of partial knowledge of unseen" as you have rendered it.</span><br /><span class="3l3x">"This amount of knowledge of unseen" refers to "partial knowledge of unseen" as opposed to "total knowledge of unseen". An "amount" or "extent" does not have to be static but can be variable, as with the amount of "partial knowledge of unseen". It means: "anything less than total".</span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">The types in reference are quantities: partial quantity or total quantity.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x"><b>Is this acceptable:</b></span></span><span style="color: red;"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">If it refers to <b>partial knowledge</b> of unseen, then what is special about RasulAllah </span></span><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-image: initial; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-size: initial; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL"></span> <span lang="AR-SA">صلى الله عليه وسلم</span></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span class="3l3x"><span lang="AR-SA" style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> </span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">in possessing it? This <b>amount</b> of knowledge of unseen is attainable by animals and madmen.</span></span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x"><b>It is acceptable if</b> "this <b>amount </b>of knowledge of unseen" is referring to "partial knowledge of unseen" and not the knowledge of RasulAllah.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">Then you wouldn't say </span></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">amount</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: #1c1e21;">, would you? It's silly. </span><b><span style="color: #1c1e21;">You'd just say, partial knowledge. If you mention an</span><span style="color: red;">amount,</span><span style="color: #1c1e21;"> it only means quantity. </span></b></span></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x" style="color: #1c1e21;">It's like saying:</span><br /><span class="3l3x"><span style="color: #1c1e21;">Bill Gates has some money but what is special about Bill in this? </span><span style="color: red;">This <b>amount</b> is even held by Zameel too.</span><span style="color: #1c1e21;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><br /></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">The discussion is about something attributed exclusively to Allah, "Alim al-Ghayb", not about things that are attributed to creation also like knowledge in general or wealth.</span><br /><span class="3l3x">So a better analogy would be something like "Khaliq" (Creator). Take the following analogy: </span><br /><span class="3l3x">'If someone said, Elon Musk can be called "the Creator", he of course does not mean creator of everything, but creator of some things, while creating some things is not exclusive to Elon Musk; such an amount of creation is carried out even by ants and other creatures, so they should all be called "Creators".'</span><br /><span class="3l3x">It is obvious that what is being attributed to ants is not the same quantity of invention or creation as Elon Musk but of creating some things in general. There is no equation made between Elon Musk and ants. In the same way, no equation is made between the ilm al-ghayb of RasulAllah and the other creatures in the original passage.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x"><b>Yes, equation IS made.</b> <b>Because you've said</b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">AMOUNT.</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><br /></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">The amount of "some" as opposed to "all", not the amount held by the person in question.</span><br /><span class="3l3x">I would have thought that's an obvious distinction.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">In the analogy that I presented and the original passage, the actual amounts held are not even brought up. </span><br /><span class="3l3x">All that is mentioned is that a general amount described as "some" is held by them, which is not something exclusive to them, rather a general amount of "some" is also held by others.</span><br /><span class="3l3x">The actual, precise amount of that "some" is not even in question.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><br /></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">YOU brought up </span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">amounts. </span></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">YOU said</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">it's a valid interpretation</span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">.<b> It would be good if you took that wording back and denounced it,</b> for your sake as it points towards equality. <b>No harm in doing tawbah from something once it's brought to your attention.</b><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">?? You seem to be evading the problems with your blasphemy theory. The passage clearly has a valid, alternative meaning which you are not willing to even consider.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">The meaning presented in Muhannad is not linguistically invalid or implausible. If the passage has a linguistically plausible meaning that is not kufr, that meaning will have to be assumed.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">"Now at the end I consider it appropriate, in order to complete this reply, that I further explain the passage of Hifz al-Iman that was the basis of this accusation, though it is completely clear. Firstly, I made the claim that the kind of Unseen knowledge that is intrinsic and independent (bi-laa wasita) is exclusively for Allah Most High. As for that Unseen knowledge that is dependent (bil-wasita) it is possible for the creation, but it is not permitted to call the creation Knower of the Unseen (`Alim al-Ghayb) thereby. For this claim I presented two proofs. That passage comes from the second proof which begins with the words: Then if it is true as held by Zayd that the ruling of knowledge of the Unseen is established for the pure person of the Messenger. It means that the application of the ruling of knowledge of the Unseen to the sacred person of the Messenger, is merely due to his possessing Unseen knowledge by dependency (bil-wasita) and this is sound according to you. Then by `Alim al-Ghayb (Knower of the Unseen) if you mean that he possesses all limitless knowledge, then that is impossible by the demand of scripture and reason. If, however, you mean only some branches of Unseen knowledge, even if it were just one thing, no matter how insignificant that one thing was, what is the specification of the Messenger in that. For the likeness (aysa) of that knowledge is possessed by Zayd, Amar etc.</span><br /><br /><span class="3l3x">"The word aysa here does not mean they possess Unseen knowledge just as the knowledge of the Unseen possessed in reality by the Messenger, (We seek refuge of God from that). Rather the meaning of aysa here is exactly what we mentioned above, that is (all possess) some of the Unseen Knowledge (be it even a small amount, and no matter how insignificant). The reason for this is that some, as stated above, is general in its application. The very following words in the passage are also the proof for this; namely: The reason for this is that every person will have knowledge of something or other that is hidden from another person….Consequently, if Zayd considers it reason enough to apply knowledge of the Unseen to all cases of possessing any piece of Unseen knowledge, no matter how insignificant, then Zayd will have to call all these beings Knowers of the Unseen. Is it not so that they too know some Unseen things? A superficial reading of this very passage is clearly saying this…." (A Critique of Husam al-Haramayn, page 65)</span><br /><b><br /><span class="3l3x">According to the above work, this was written by the author of the original passage himself in 1910.</span></b><br /><span class="3l3x"><b>What more is required after the explanation of the author himself?</b><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: inherit, serif; font-size: 10pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">  <span class="3l3x"><b>A retraction maybe of the original passage which he changed?</b><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">He explained what he meant by the original passage in the above quote, and later made a modification but not because he believed there was anything problematic with the original:</span><br /><br /><span class="3l3x"><b>"On the 28th of September 1923 (1342 Hijri), a friend of Mawlana Thanvi from Hyderabad Dakkan wrote to to him with reference to the Bast al-Banaan treatise:</b></span><br /><br /><span class="3l3x">"After your clarificaion there is no room left for any doubt. There is neither the slightest hint of a contrary meaning being intended nor bad ettiqutte. Hence truly there is absolutely no necessity to amend the passage for this reason. However, the Muslim world is filled with all kinds of people with different understandings and there are those who will deliberately cause confusion for their interests. They will of course claim it is for the sake of religion they do what they do, but in reality it is for worldly interest. Due to this situation, in consideration of those with less understanding, who may themselves fall into error or be confused by others, if this passage was modified in a way such that though the words would be altered, the substance would remain the same. It is hoped that this would be rewarded. This modification though would not be at the level of necessity, only desirable. The end decision is whatever you believe is correct.</span><br /><br /><span class="3l3x">"<b>This is how Mawlana Thanavi replied to this letter:</b></span><br /><br /><span class="3l3x">"May God reward you. It is a very good idea. Because before this no one showed any real basis for modifying the passage, and so I thought making a modification would be necessarily admitting that the passage had a contrary meaning. It is a principle to make an admission of disbelief is disbelief (iqrar bil-kufr kufr). Thus I considered a modification, not only not necessary, it was actually forbidden. Now your letter has shown me a genuine justification and in line with your advice, I change the words from: 'If it some of the knowledge of the Unseen that is meant, then what is the specification of the Messenger in this? The like of this knowledge of the Unseen (aysa `ilm-e-ghayb) is also found with Zayd, Umar, moreover every child, insane person and even all animals and beasts. The reason for this is that every person will have knowledge of something or other that is hidden from another person, this will then require one to call everyone Knower of the Unseen (`Alim al-Ghayb)…' to this: 'If it is some of the knowledge of the Unseen that is meant, then what is the specification of the Messenger in this? Some knowledge of the Unseen in general terms (mutlaq `ulum-e-ghaybiyya) is also found with other than the prophets, may God's blessing be upon them. Thus it will require one to call every one Knower of the Unseen (`Alim al-Ghayb)….'</span><br /><br /><span class="3l3x">"This reply was then published under the title Tagheer al-Unwaan (Modification of the Address) in the same year. This letter was also published as an appendix to future editions of Hifz al-Iman." (A Critique of Husam al-Haramayn, page 68)<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <b> <span class="3l3x">He </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">changed</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> the passage. It's still problematic as there's no repentance from the original.<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">The question still remains:</span></b></span><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x">1. Why didn't </span></span></b><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Anbethwi </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">present the actual passages or their correct translation? He could have then added what</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Thanwi </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">meant. Why did he hide the original?<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">If there's no kufr, then why didn't he present it?</span></b></span><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x">2. Why didn't he go to the same ulama who are in Husam?<o:p></o:p></span></span></b></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x"><b>I have no idea</b> about the second question, but I think it has been established that what he presented accurately conveys the meaning of the passage. </span><br /><span class="3l3x">What matters is the meaning, not the words.</span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x"><b>He does not believe the original is problematic, so of course there will be no repentance. In fact, he said to repent would be an admission that the passage is kufr, but he does not accept this based on the clear explanation he has given.</b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x"><b>Wrong. Totally wrong.<o:p></o:p></b></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">When talking about RasulAllah </span></b></span><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-image: initial; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-size: initial; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL"></span> <span lang="AR-SA">صلى الله عليه وسلم</span></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>, it's words.<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Do you know Rā'inā?<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">The ruling will always be on the apparent.</span></b></span><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x"><span style="color: #1c1e21;">As for the meaning, NO, it isn't present in </span><span style="color: #cc0000;">Muhannad.</span><span style="color: #1c1e21;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Because </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Thanwi </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">said </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">aysā</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> for tashbih but there is no word that indicates tashbih in </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Muhannad</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">.<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">It was the word</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> aysā </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">that was the cause of kufr and</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Anbethwi </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">removed it.</span></b></span><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x">So, again, what was the harm in </span></span></b><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Anbethwi </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">presenting accurate translations?<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Manzoor Numani </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">said the translations in Husām are correct.<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Why didn't </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Anbethwi</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> just show the same translations and THEN give his own meaning?</span></b></span><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x">Listen. </span></span></b><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Muhannad</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> can only be a reply to Husām if:</span></b></span><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x">The same passages that are in Husām were presented to the same ulama and then they retracted. </span><br /><span class="3l3x">Right now, it's apples and oranges.<o:p></o:p></span></span></b></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">Going in circles.</span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">  <span class="3l3x"><b>The crux of which is, if the passages of devbandis didn't contain kufr, why didn't the very book that sought to exonerate them mention the actual passages?<o:p></o:p></b></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Why only give the purported meaning and that too as understood by the devbandis themselves?</span></b></span><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x">Why not let the ulama decide the meaning?</span></span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /></span><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551?hc_location=ufi" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #365899; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></a><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> are you Zameel?<b><o:p></o:p></b></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--</span></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="color: #c00000;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></a></span></b><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">I am not Zameel.<o:p></o:p></span></span></b></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">A big factor would be communicating across languages.</span></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x">Are you saying that when they wrote their defences in Urdu, like in the work I quoted above, they did not quote the complete passages?</span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x"><b>Numani did. Chandpuri did. But the clincher is, </b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Anbethwi</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> DIDN'T because the former two didn't have to present to Arabs, the latter did. He hid the original passages.</span></b></span><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x">That's dishonesty. If you're so sure you haven't blasphemer, go ahead and present the actual accurate translations or even the original Urdu to people like Abdul Haq Muhajir Madani.<o:p></o:p></span></span></b></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/saman.alam.3551" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Saman Alam</span></b></a><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x">Were there no impartial non-Deobandi Urdu-speaking scholars who exonerated them of kufr?<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x"><b>Keyword: beliefs. The question ISN'T about beliefs, is it?<o:p></o:p></b></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">It's about what was </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">WRITTEN.</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /></span></b><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">The partial knowledge of RasulAllah </span></b></span><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-image: initial; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-size: initial; color: #c00000; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">صلى الله عليه وسلم</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span lang="AR-SA" style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>  </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">has been compared to the partial knowledge of animals and madmen. </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">That's insulting and therefore kufr.</span></b></span><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x">My question remains, if devbandis didn't think it's kufr in the original passage, then:<o:p></o:p></span></span></b></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x">1. Why didn't they present the actual translation of the passage?</span><br /><span class="3l3x">2. Why did they later change the same passage? </span><br /><span class="3l3x">3. Why didn't they present Muhannad to the same scholars who had endorsed Husām?</span><br /><br /><span class="3l3x"><o:p></o:p></span></span></b></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Changing a passage or only presenting what you claim it means doesn't remove kufr. It actually proves it further.<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: inherit, serif; font-size: 10pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><br /></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001379796942" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><b><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">شهاب صديقي</span></b></a><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> <span class="3l3x"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/abdullahsaeed20?hc_location=ufi" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><span style="color: #c00000;">Abd-Allah S. Qureshi</span></a> this Barelwi is trying too hard.<b>Tell him to shut up and start giving the interpretations that are now being shown from the books of his Akabir. </b></span><br /><span class="3l3x">Let’s see him use the same yardstick that he uses with Deobandis.</span><br /><span class="3l3x"><b>Btw, great job Saman in exposing the hypocrisy of this guy.</b>I am sure it didn’t register with him at all.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: inherit, serif; font-size: 10pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">The partial knowledge of RasulAllah </span></b></span><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-image: initial; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-size: initial; color: #c00000; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL"></span> <span lang="AR-SA">صلى الله عليه وسلم</span></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span lang="AR-SA" style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">is compared to that of animals </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">and you lot don't see the issue.Sad.<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--</span></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> <span class="3l3x"><b>Even if </b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">aysā </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">refers to </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #cc0000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">partial</span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> knowledge of unseen, whose knowledge is being compared with what?<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Sunni reply:</span></b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: #1c1e21;"> </span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="color: #1c1e21;">Tell me, would a </span><span style="color: #cc0000;">deobandi</span><span style="color: #1c1e21;"> find this </span></b></span></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">offensive:</span></b></span><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /><span class="3l3x">And then, if it is correct to attribute knowledge to be possessed by </span></span></b><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Thanwi, </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">as </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Zameel </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">says, then it remains to be asked, which one he refers to. Is it only a ‘part’ of it (ba’ad) or ‘complete’; if he refers to ‘part’, then what is extraordinary about </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Thanwi </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">in possessing it?<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Such knowledge is also possessed by all and sundry; even infants, lunatics and all the animals and quadrupeds.<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">The knowledge of </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Gangohi, Anbethwi, Nanotwi </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">and</span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Thanwi; </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">what's extraordinary about it?<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Such knowledge is possessed by </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: red; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">pigs </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">and </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: red; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">dogs </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">too.<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">So we should call </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: red; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">pigs </span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">aalims too.<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span><br /><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /></span></span><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--------------------------------------------------------------</span></span><br /><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /></span></span><br /><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Malik Ibn Wahb</span></b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> related that <b>Malik </b>said,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">إن رداء النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم ـ و يروى زر النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم ـ وسخ ، أراد عيبه ـ قتل</span><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="color: #002060; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">"Anyone who says that the Prophet's cloak (or button) was</span></b><b><span style="color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">dirty</span></b><b><span style="color: #002060; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">, thereby intending to </span></b><b><span style="color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">find fault </span></b><b><span style="color: #002060; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">with him, should be killed."<o:p></o:p></span></b></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #002060; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Abu'l-Hasan al-Qabisi</span></b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> gave a fatwa that<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">فيمن قال في النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم : الحمال يتيم أبي طالب ـ بالقتل</span><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">a man who called the Prophet "<span style="color: #c00000;">the porter, the orphan of Abu Talib</span>" should be killed.<o:p></o:p></span></b></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #002060; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Abu Muhammad ibn Abi Zayd</span></b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> gave a fatwa to kill a man <b>who was listening </b>to some people discussing what the <b><span style="color: #c00000;">Prophet looked like.</span></b><span style="color: #c00000;"> </span>When a man with an ugly face and beard walked by, he said to them, <b><span style="color: #c00000;">"You want to know what he looked like?</span></b><span style="color: #c00000;">He looked like this passer-by in physique and beard</span>." <b>Abu Muhammad</b> said,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">و لا تقبل توبته و قد كذب ـ لعنه الله ، و ليس يخرج من قلب سليم الإيمان</span><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">"His repentance is not accepted. He lied, may Allah curse him. That could not come out of a heart with sound belief."<o:p></o:p></span></b></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #002060; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Ahmad ibn Abi Sulayman,</span></b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> the companion of <b>Sahnun,</b> said,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">إن النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم كان أسود يقتل</span><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">"Anyone who says that the Prophet was black should be killed."<o:p></o:p></span></b></div><div class="MsoNormal">--<o:p></o:p></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Muhammad ibn Sahnun</span></b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> said that<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">أجمع العلماء أن شاتم النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم المتقص له كافر . و الوعيد جار عليه بعذاب الله ، و حكمه عند الأمة القتل ، و من شك في كفره و عذابه كفر</span><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #002060; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">The 'ulama' agree that </span><span style="color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">anyone who reviles </span><span style="color: #002060; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">the Prophet and</span><span style="color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">disparages</span><span style="color: #002060; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> him is an unbeliever and the threat of Allah's punishment is on him. The community's judgment on him is that he be killed. </span><span style="color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Anyone who has any doubts about such a person's disbelief and punishment is also an unbeliever.</span><span style="color: #002060; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><br /></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Ibrahim ibn Husayn ibn Khalid,</span></b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> the faqih, uses the instance of <b>Khalid ibn al-Walid</b> killing <span style="color: #c00000;">Malik ibn Nuwayra </span>for referring to the <b>Prophet </b>as "<span style="color: #c00000;">your companion</span>."<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal">--<o:p></o:p></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Abu Sulayman al-Khattabi</span></b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> said,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">لا أعلم أحداً من المسلمين اختلف في وجوب قتله إذا كان مسلماً</span><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">"I do not know of any Muslim who disagrees about the necessity of killing such a person if he is a Muslim."<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><br /></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="color: #002060; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Ibn al-Qasim</span></b><span style="color: #002060; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> reports from Malik in the book of Ibn Sahnun, the Mabsut, and the 'Utibiyya and Ibn Mutarrif relate the same from Malik in the book of Ibn Habib,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="color: #002060; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">من سب النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم من المسلمين قتل ، و لم يستتب</span><span style="color: #002060; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #002060; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">"Any Muslim who curses the Prophet is killed without being asked to repent."<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="color: #002060; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Ibn al-Qasim</span></b><span style="color: #002060; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">said in the 'Utibiyya,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">من سبه أو شتمه أو عابه أو تنقصه فإنه يقتل ، و حكمه عند الأمة القتل كالزنديق</span><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">"<span style="color: red;">Anyone </span>who curses him, <span style="color: #c00000;">reviles </span>him, <span style="color: #c00000;">finds fault </span>with him or<span style="color: #c00000;">disparages</span> him is killed. The community says that he should be killed just like the dualist. Allah made it obligatory to respect the Prophet and be dutiful to him."<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #002060; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">In the Mabsut from <b>'Uthman ibn Kinana</b> we find,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">من شتم النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم من المسلمين قتل أو صلب حياً و لم يستتب و الإمام مخير في صلبه حياً أو قتله</span><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">"<span style="color: #c00000;">Any Muslim </span>who <span style="color: #c00000;">reviles</span> the Prophet is killed or crucified<span style="color: red;">without being asked to repent</span>. The Imam can choose between crucifying him and killing him."<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Abu'l-Mus'ab</span></b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> and <b>Ibn Abi Uways</b>, they heard <b>Malik </b>say,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">من سب رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم ، أو شتمه ، أو عابة ، أو تنقصه ـ قتل مسلماً كان أو كافراً ، و لا يستتاب</span><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="color: #002060; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">"</span><span style="color: red; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Anyone </span><span style="color: #002060; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">who curses the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, </span><span style="color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">reviles </span><span style="color: #002060; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">him, </span><span style="color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">finds fault </span><span style="color: #002060; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">with him or</span><span style="color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">disparages</span><span style="color: #002060; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> him is killed, <b>be he Muslim</b> or unbeliever, <b>without being asked to repent</b>."<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Habib ibn Rabi' al-Qarawi</span></b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> said that<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">مذهب مالك و أصحابه أن من قال فيه صلى الله عليه و سلم : ما فيه نقص ـ قتل دون استتابة</span><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">The school of Malik and his companions is that anyone who says anything <span style="color: #cc0000;">disparaging</span> about the Prophet is killed without being asked to repent.<o:p></o:p></span></b></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></b></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Ibn 'Attab</span></b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"> said that<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">الكتاب و السنة موجبان أن من قصد النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم بأذى أو نقص ، معرضاً أو مصرحاً ، و إن قل ـ فقتله واجب ، فهذا الباب كله مما عده ا لعلماء سباً أو تنقصاً يجب قتل قائله ، لم يختلف في ذلك متقدمهم ولا متأخرهم</span><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">The Book and Sunnah require that someone who intends to even <span style="color: #cc0000;">slightly harm </span>or <span style="color: #cc0000;">disparage</span> the Prophet, <span style="color: #c00000;">either by allusion </span>or <span style="color: #c00000;">clear statement, </span>must be killed. </span></b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Anything like this which is something that the 'ulama' consider to be a curse or disparagement necessitates that the one who says it be killed. Neither the early or later people disagree about that.<b><o:p></o:p></b></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">-------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></b></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><br /></div><span style="color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif;"><span style="background-color: #f2f3f5; font-size: 12px;">===========================================</span></span><br /></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">If you want answers to </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #c00000; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">Usman Deobandi's videos, </span></b></span><span class="3l3x"><b><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">you can see:</span></b></span><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /></span><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads%2Fmawlana-umar-ichrawi-on-hazir-nazir.14259%2F&fbclid=IwAR3n1QKKiPcdMsuyay3f09EPhgPHZ4afwpCCELrjMAOzcxscYVlZtoRycr8" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;" target="_blank"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #365899; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">http://sunniport.com/index.php...</span></a><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /></span><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads%2Fanwaar-e-shariat-on-nabiy-isa-%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%87-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B3%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%85.14258%2F&fbclid=IwAR00ovQxwReTy308rpYg8wC1O9GY9pe5hKVHORZnoQpGuD9-mvif_m46dVc" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;" target="_blank"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #365899; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">http://sunniport.com/index.php...</span></a><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /></span><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads%2Fdevbandi-debates-from-100-years.14211%2F&fbclid=IwAR00DKqYx8tl7cIZpoh2Xdot-iAxHJFAl_vFhlAML_m4dzeEOJ2dsI1DGJs" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;" target="_blank"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #365899; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">http://sunniport.com/index.php...</span></a><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /></span><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads%2Fanwaar-e-shariat-on-imam-bukhari.14257%2F&fbclid=IwAR3n1QKKiPcdMsuyay3f09EPhgPHZ4afwpCCELrjMAOzcxscYVlZtoRycr8" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;" target="_blank"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #365899; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">http://sunniport.com/index.php...</span></a><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /></span><a href="http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads%2Fdeobandi-claims-blasphemy-in-malfuzat-alahazrat.14230%2F&fbclid=IwAR3fS719ijlK-Wphcx7PVVzNtCnhy28OQYpKjLH6x2jDfYMLYad4gZoUL08" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;" target="_blank"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #365899; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">http://sunniport.com/index.php...</span></a><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span class="3l3x"><span style="background: rgb(242, 243, 245); color: #1c1e21; font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;">--<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><br /></div><div class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><o:p><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEidosvj8qnsLDEtZ2GrKNef_RP89SoyNQL6tlouvp9qu95008vUsfso3CvZ0GvUtbRIE9tJmrj6nZKgLVPKFADBrKN-VmOEGyl706CnfprMPT-9O93O9IwrYQEIyMiXzwGqveIukxxbtHqd/s1600/Shaykh+Asrar+v+Usman+Deoband.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;"><img border="0" height="180" loading="lazy" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEidosvj8qnsLDEtZ2GrKNef_RP89SoyNQL6tlouvp9qu95008vUsfso3CvZ0GvUtbRIE9tJmrj6nZKgLVPKFADBrKN-VmOEGyl706CnfprMPT-9O93O9IwrYQEIyMiXzwGqveIukxxbtHqd/s320-rw/Shaykh+Asrar+v+Usman+Deoband.jpg" style="border: 1px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 4px;" width="320" /></a></o:p></span><br /><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br /></span><br /><h1 class="title style-scope ytd-video-primary-info-renderer" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-image: initial; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-size: initial; border: 0px; color: var(--ytd-video-primary-info-renderer-title-color, var(--yt-spec-text-primary)); line-height: 2.4rem; margin: 0px; max-height: 4.8rem; overflow: hidden; padding: 0px; text-shadow: var(--ytd-video-primary-info-renderer-title-text-shadow, none); transform: var(--ytd-video-primary-info-renderer-title-transform, none);"><yt-formatted-string class="style-scope ytd-video-primary-info-renderer" style="--yt-endpoint-color: hsl(206.1, 79.3%, 52.7%);"><span style="font-family: georgia, "times new roman", serif; font-size: x-small;">Shaykh Asrar Rashid & <span style="color: #cc0000;">Usman Deobandi </span>Videos</span></yt-formatted-string></h1><h1 class="title style-scope ytd-video-primary-info-renderer" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-image: initial; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-size: initial; border: 0px; color: var(--ytd-video-primary-info-renderer-title-color, var(--yt-spec-text-primary)); line-height: 2.4rem; margin: 0px; max-height: 4.8rem; overflow: hidden; padding: 0px; text-shadow: var(--ytd-video-primary-info-renderer-title-text-shadow, none); transform: var(--ytd-video-primary-info-renderer-title-transform, none);"><yt-formatted-string class="style-scope ytd-video-primary-info-renderer" style="--yt-endpoint-color: hsl(206.1, 79.3%, 52.7%);"><span style="font-family: georgia, "times new roman", serif; font-size: medium;"> </span></yt-formatted-string><b style="background-color: transparent;"><a href="https://salafiaqeedah.blogspot.com/2019/01/usman-deobandis-videos.html" style="color: red; text-decoration-line: none;">HERE</a></b></h1><div><br /></div><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 9pt;"></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

Pre -Debate (Shaykh Asrar Rashid vs Usman Iqbal Deobandi)

Shaykh Asrar Rashid &  Usman Deobandi Pre -Debate  (Shaykh Asrar Rashid vs  Usman Iqbal Deobandi ) devbandi  debates from 100 years  Her...

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